Interview with Jacqui Felgate, 3AW Drive

5 March 2025

JACQUI FELGATE: It is that time of the week. Every Wednesday, I'm joined by Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister, Richard Marles and Shadow Finance Minister Liberal Senator Jane Hume, will be talking through the issues of the week and the issues that matter to you. So 133 693. I've got Jane with me in the studio. Good afternoon.

JANE HUME: Good to be with you, Jacqui.

JACQUI FELGATE: And Richard is on the phone. Hello, Richard.

RICHARD MARLES: How are you Jacqui, how are you Jane?

JANE HUME: Good thanks, Richard.

JACQUI FELGATE: Look, I want to start with you, Richard, because we've obviously got a couple of a couple of significant issues, both internationally and locally, but just on the cyclone in Queensland, another Wednesday without an election date. Could the announcement now be delayed?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I mean, I'm not sure when the announcement was going to be, because that's a matter for the Prime Minister, but that was a nice effort to try and give me the one thing I know is that if I start speculating about when the election is going to be, that'll be a career limiting move between me and the Prime Minister. So I think I'll leave these issues to him.

JACQUI FELGATE: But obviously on a more serious issue. All eyes on Queensland at the moment.

RICHARD MARLES: Indeed, and what is being faced by the community in South East Queensland and indeed, in northern New South Wales, is potentially a very profound event. We defense are working very closely with National Emergency Management Australia to make sure that every defence asset possible is ready to be deployed over the course of yesterday and today. The big issue has been sandbags. So we've supplied defence has supplied more than 300,000 sandbags so the community can prepare itself for what is coming. But people in Melbourne may not know that Brisbane is actually quite a big defense city that sort of our biggest bases around the country are in Brisbane, the seventh brigade and one of our two big air force bases. So it actually gives a lot of options in terms of people, but also in terms of a place to base operations from and knocking on doors, airlift capacity, engineering capacity, high clearance vehicles all of that is being put on ready to make sure it's there in the event that it's needed.

JACQUI FELGATE: And hopefully, it isn't. I want to go now to international affairs. So, the US has called on Australia to up its spending on defense. They're suggesting 3% percent of GDP currently at around 2%. One highly unusual that a foreign nation would ask this of us. And two, what's our position?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, firstly, I can understand, America's position in, urging the world to, you know, its friends and allies. I mean, in that sense to be spending more on defence. And it's been making that request of its partners in NATO for a considerable amount of time. And I totally understand, uh, the sense in which they would be speaking about that with us. The first thing to say is we are increasing our defence spending. Um, the $50 billion over the decade is about as big a increase in defence spending as we have seen in our peacetime history since the end of the Second World War. Um, and that, uh, is acknowledged by the United States. I mean, often, I say, when it comes to defence spending in a rational world, defence spending is a function of strategic threats, strategic complexity. And we certainly live in a strategically threatening time. Um, I mean, we will continue to work with the United States, around those issues. Uh, so I can totally understand why they would be having that conversation with us. I'd also point out that what we heard from in the testimony from the, uh, in the Congress and that's he was the person who made this comment, um, that there is real support for AUKUS and that affirms what it was said to me when I met with my counterpart, Secretary Pete Hegseth, a few weeks ago in Washington.

JACQUI FELGATE: Can I ask you, Jane, um, increase on, uh, Peter Dutton's signal that he would increase defence spending? How much is appropriate?

JANE HUME: Well, that's a very good question, because obviously Richard has now said that he just met with his counterpart, the Secretary of Defence, Secretary Hegseth. And I'm interested to note, Richard, I mean, did he raise with you? Did he say exactly what amount that he wanted, what percentage of GDP? Because I know that Labor set themselves a target of 2.4% GDP, and they've failed to meet that target. And in fact, the Coalition's concern really is that there's been around $80 billion of either cuts or reprioritisation or delays from funding.

JACQUI FELGATE: Yep, but what would you like to see if you were in government in terms of a money, an increase?

JANE HUME: Well, you can see that we've already made a down payment on that with the announcement that we're going to acquire 28 additional F-35’s to increase our strike force capacity and our capability there, and that's back to 100 aircraft, which again, was a cut that Labor made. Now, what is the right? Well, the right amount is to make sure that we are a strong, we have strong defence capability in a geo strategically dangerous world, increasingly so. We need to be able to meet those commitments and the expectations of our strategic partners.

JACQUI FELGATE: So, Richard, have we let that go? Should we have put more money in earlier than what we're doing now? Have we left it too late?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, look, as Jane well knows, it's in fact, increases to defense spending is what's occurred over the last three years on a target of $50 billion over the next decade. That is in the Budget, and it is a commitment in the Budget which has not been matched by the Coalition. So right now…

JANE HUME: It will be exceeded.

RICHARD MARLES: …the Coalition position, the Coalition has not said anything in terms of matching the $50 billion.

JACQUI FELGATE: So you’ll exceed that, Jane?

JANE HUME: We expect that we will meet our international obligations, and if taking defence spending up to a much higher proportion of GDP…

JACQUI FELGATE (talks over): So 3%?

JANE HUME (continues): in the expectation. If that's the expectation, well that's where we need to go. And we've made that pretty clear that we've announced one down payment. And this is something that, let's not forget, Labor actually cut from our defence capabilities. This was something that was recommended by the Defence White Paper, but it was specifically cut by labor. And more, I think, more concerning is, while we know that Richard is, you know, across this brief, and he's, you know, making lots of noises about this, the Prime Minister simply isn't well briefed. Every time the Prime Minister speaks about national security, he seems flustered and not across his National Security brief.

JACQUI FELGATE: And I’ll get Richard to respond to that. Richard, sorry,

RICHARD MARLES: Yeah, well, obviously accept that assertion in relation to the PM. But the Coalition have not matched the $50 billion in increased defence spending that we put forward. Indeed, when the Shadow Treasurer has been consistently asked around this, he talks about sticking within the envelope that the Coalition took to the last election, which is $50 billion less than what is now in the budget, the additional F-35’s that Jane is talking about, the Coalition costs at about $3 billion but this was policy on the run. What was absolutely clear is that, when questioned, there was no provision for sustainment of those aircraft, for the housing of those aircraft, but more importantly, for the pilots who would fly those aircraft.

JANE HUME: So you won't match that?

RICHARD MARLES: But, it isn't going to shock your audience. Jacqui, F-35’s sitting on the ground, don't do anything. And simply talking about putting $3 billion into buying planes without having the pilots to fly them does not increase the defence forces capability. I mean, really, when you hear that kind of announcement from Peter Dutton, and it's clear that he's got the strategic acumen of a guppy, I mean, there is absolutely nothing.

JANE HUME: Well thanks for that strategic acumen of a guppy. But you still haven't answered the question Richard. Has the defence secretary of the US, who you met with raised with you, increasing the level of funding?

JACQUI FELGATE: Did he?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, in the meeting, in the meeting that I had with Pete Hegseth, we talked about the fact that Australia was going through a historic increase in our defence spending. The greatest increase in our defence spending in our peacetime history since the second world war.

JANE HUME: So what percentage of GDP?

JACQUI FELGATE: Did he bring up 3%?

RICHARD MARLES: Just let me finish, much greater than what occurred in the 10 years of the over Turnbull Morrison government and the increases that we have put in the budget were absolutely acknowledged by the United States, and we talked about that when I met with Pete Hegseth. Now we live in a challenging world, and this will be an ongoing dialogue with the United States, but what you have here is a government which actually has walked the walk with increased defence spending. When the Coalition were in government in their final years, they cut defense spending. That's actually what happened, and they presided over a defence force which was shrinking and which had lesser capability. I mean, they don't really have any credibility when it comes to securing our nation.

JANE HUME: Other than you know, negotiating the AUKUS agreement.

JACQUI FELGATE: Okay, all right, let's, let's leave it there. We're going to come back after this. I'm going to ask you as well about the peacekeeping, or a proposed peacekeeping force for Ukraine.

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JACQUI FELGATE: It is 11 minutes to five. I am with the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles and Shadow Finance Minister Liberal Senator Jane Hume. Richard, can I just go to you? Firstly, just on Ukraine, do we have the resources like we've been talking about defense spending, but if there was a ceasefire and we got to a situation, do we actually have the resources to send peacekeepers to Ukraine?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, perhaps the way to answer that is that right now, we have Defence Force personnel who are in the UK who are providing training to new recruits to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and in fact, they've been doing that work since 2022 since late 22 and so we're already committing personnel to supporting Ukraine. All we've said here is that when, if and when a request of this kind comes through, we'll obviously have a good look at it, and we will talk with our partners, with the United States, but also our partners in Europe, as to how best we can contribute. And that's what we've been doing from the get go. But I think the important point to make here is that we very much stand with Ukraine. I mean, Russia has been the aggressor here. It is really important that Ukraine is able to resolve this conflict on its terms. We all obviously want to see peace, but it can't be any peace. It needs to be a peace which enables Ukraine to resolve this on their terms. And we will continue to support Ukraine and work with our partners in doing that, and we'll consider any of the requests that come through about how we can best do that.

JACQUI FELGATE: How much more complicated does it make negotiations and discussions with your counterpart in the US when you are no longer aligned on Ukraine?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, again, let's see how this all plays out. I mean, we, Australia's position on Ukraine is clear. I've just articulated. And we will continue to work with our partners in relation to that, we have worked with the United States over the last few years, but not just the United States, with the United Kingdom as well, around how we can best make contributions as of course, we've worked with Ukraine itself, and we'll just continue to do that.

JACQUI FELGATE: Okay, and Jane, can I ask you on a local issue. You were on Tom Elliott yesterday, on this station, the Opposition's plan to consider a ban from work from home for public servants. I certainly feel like the mood in Victoria, if that was to happen, there would be an uproar, I was speaking to the Union this week on our program as well. Do you think it's time?

JANE HUME: Well, let me be really clear, it's actually not a ban on working from home. Of course, people should be able to work from home, but they shouldn't be able to demand to work from home full time, and that's what the enterprise bargaining agreement that Labor negotiated with the CPSU now allows for. That actually is completely contradictory to something that the Secretaries Board and the Australian Public Service Commissioner, the guidelines that they set only in 2023 so under this government, and this overrides it. And the Australian Public Service has a much higher proportion of people working from home than the rest of the country, so it's now around 61%. It's even higher than it was during COVID and I don't know whether that meets the expectations of taxpayers. Not only that, but we've heard a lot of stories around people that are taking advantage of it. So for instance, we had some stakeholders that went into a particular department for a meeting. They took their clipboards and their flip boards and their handouts, and they got in there, and the only people in the meeting room were on the screen. The public servants were dialing in from home, but the stakeholders had gone into the department, gone to Canberra for the meeting. That's unacceptable. We also heard one story. A public servant told us that somebody in their department was particularly hard to get hold of, even though they were working from home full time. They were traveling around Australia in a camper van. Now I mean, that's just taking the piss really isn't it.

JACQUI FELGATE: Well, it is, it is. We want people to be able to negotiate an ability to work from home, but where it suits not just them, it suits their team and it suits the department so that they're delivering an effective and an efficient public service.

JACQUI FELGATE: Richard, can I just ask you on another local issue that obviously the most significant, or one of the most significant issues in Victoria right now are home invasions, the youth crime crisis and bail laws. When you come home, do you feel safe?

RICHARD MARLES: I do feel safe, but I also accept that there are many people who feel anxious about the issue of youth crime, and clearly the state government needs to be focused on youth crime, both in terms of resourcing and indeed looking at penalties. But I think we also, from a Commonwealth point of view, just do need to remember that the part of the role we can play as the Commonwealth Government is to make sure that there are the appropriate pathways for young people within our society. Now it's a function of what we spend on education, what we spend on TAFE, what we spend on youth services, like all of that actually makes a contribution in mitigating the environment in which youth crime happens. That's what we've been doing as a government. All of that, of course, is on the chopping block. When you hear Jane talk about $350 of Commonwealth cuts.

JACQUI FELGATE: But are you concerned..

JANE HUME: Oh that’s nonsense Richard.

JACQUI FELGATE: Are you concerned that the backlash against the State Labor government in relation to crime? Because I'm telling you, it is the number one issue. Our callers talk about.

JANE HUME: It’s the number one issue when we’re door knocking too.

JACQUI FELGATE: Are you concerned that that that backlash is going to filter through at a Federal level?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I think people understand what tier of government they're voting for when, when they go to the polls, but I mean, I accept that State Government needs to be acting when it comes to the question of well crime generally, and specifically youth crime, and that does go to questions and resources and looking at what penalties are in place. But again, at this federal election, the opportunity that people will have will be to vote for a Federal Labor government or a federal Liberal government, and what contribution we can make to this really goes to the Commonwealth services that are provided, and it matters that there are pathways for young people when it comes to proper funding of schools and funding of TAFE and proper funding of university.

JANE HUME: The Labor government in Victoria is proposing to put these youth offenders back into mainstream schools, which is really unfair, not just on the students and the families, but also on the principals changing the roles.

JACQUI FELGATE: I'm sorry we will have to leave it there. I've run out of time. Always appreciate you both coming on the program. Talk to you next week.