Interview with Jayne Azzopardi, Today Show

28 June 2024

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: Well, $1 billion or a million an hour. That is how much the government claims a delay to new NDIS legislation will cost taxpayers. Labor now launching a ticket to count the cost after the coalition and the Greens voted to delay reforms that are designed to stop rorting of the system. So let's bring in NDIS and Government Services Minister Bill Shorten in Canberra and Shadow Minister for Finance Jane Hume in Melbourne. Good morning to you both. Bill, you are clearly not happy about this. But even if you can get these costs reined in we're hearing this morning the NDIS will be more expensive than the aged pension within a decade. Is it sustainable?

BILL SHORTEN: The NDIS is changing lives. It's helping hundreds of thousands of people and their families and it's employing hundreds of thousands people. It's doing a lot more good than harm. So yes, it is sustainable in the future. But we've all got to join in to make it sustainable for the future. That's why I was incredibly disappointed to see that after legislation which has been the subject of a 12 week Senate Committee, the Greens and inexplicably the Liberals decided they wanted more time to consult over the next eight weeks. Even though the actuary of the scheme has said that delaying some of these reforms to close down loopholes will cost participants and taxpayers a billion dollars over the next 14 days.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: Jane, do you take responsibility for that billion dollars. Is it worth it?

JANE HUME: Well the Coalition agree that the NDIS is fundamentally important because Bill's right, it does change lives. It gives some of our most vulnerable Australians those with disabilities a chance for a better quality of life and access to the support that they need, which is why it's so important that the Senate is allowed to do its job to scrutinise the legislation that Bill has put before us.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: So Bill said you've already had twleve weeks to look at it, isn't that enough?

JANE HUME: The Coalition will support the sensible recommendations that are in this legislation. But Bill also didn't tell you that he'd dumped a whole series of amendments on that Committee at the last minute and then expected the Senate to pass that legislation amended without any further scrutiny. Stakeholders are coming to us and telling us that they're concerned about how these changes are going to affect them. It's much better to do the work now, get the job done, and then pass the legislation rather than find out that there's unintended consequences when it's too late and the legislation has been passed. Bill, you've had two years to do this two years where you can expect the Senate to turn on a dime once you've dumped amendments on them.

BILL SHORTEN: Let me, let me answer that. Let me answer that point. First of all, a Senate shouldn't take 20 weeks. The opposition and the Greens have been complaining that we won't compromise.

JANE HUME: Hang on. The Government shouldn't take two years.

BILL SHORTEN: Well sorry, but now you're saying we're going too slow, or we're going too fast. It can't be both. The truth of the matter is that there's some simple propositions which don't require 20 weeks to analyse and I'll tell you what it is. At the moment. People are expending their plan, they get a 12 month plan. Now what's happening is that a lot of these plans are being spent before the 12 months. Now, in some cases, that's legitimate. The wheelchairs broken the initial assessment was wrong. But the agency who run the scheme has told me and we've told the parliament that about two thirds of these plan variations where the money gets spent before the 12 months are not legitimate. This is a design flaw. It's been there. We've called it out. This is not just 'oh, we want to make sure we looked at every amendment'. This is a $1 billion delay Jane in a cost of living crisis. The idea that we need to have more chin stroking and more analysis of amendments which to be honest, we can work out very easily. It's just an excuse for in my opinion, it's not you personally, but it's a such a stupid, wasteful action. It's horrific and obscene. When we know what we've got to do, and at the end of the day, you're probably going to vote for it anyway. So why are we wasting as the as the as the clock shows a million dollars an hour while you guys get your act together to look at plan English?

JANE HUME:

We will vote for it but we're also going to amend it to add more integrity measures around the system Bill because the stakeholders telling us that this isn't good enough.

BILL SHORTEN: But why? So I'm either what, too tough too soft, too quick, too slow. Come on.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: And while you guys are arguing about this, everyone sitting at home eating their breakfast has another issue that they want us to talk about which is the cost of living so if you don't mind.

BILL SHORTEN: This is a cost living issue, Jayne and anyway, we've got next week in the Senate. I invite Jane and the Liberals rather than let's burn a billion dollars on the national credit card, sit down with me next week and let's thrash it out. Let's For God's sake, not waste a billion dollars.

JANE HUME: Let's talk to stakeholders because that's who this is about. It's not about you, it's not about me. Let's talk to them.

BILL SHORTEN: Jane I've spoken to more stakeholders than the Liberal Party ever will.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: I do want to get to our next topic.

BILL SHORTEN: Okay.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: Because people at home are struggling with their bills they're struggling with their mortgages, and now they're hearing there is no light at the end of the tunnel because inflation has surged to 4%. Jane, this means a 14th rate rise could be on the cards. Can people handle this?

JANE HUME: I'm the Chair of the Cost of Living Committee and I hear every day that families are struggling to put food on the table, to send their kids to school, to keep their lights on, to keep the doors of their businesses open. This rise in inflation certainly won't be good news for them. A lot of them are at breaking point the potential for another rate rise would send chills down their spines. We want to see the Government take this seriously and use their fiscal lever's not just rely on the RBA to do all the heavy lifting to bring down inflation because clearly, their budgets are making the RBA's job that much harder and making the situation worse and Australians are paying the price.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: Bill, you and your colleagues must have had a collective groan when you saw that inflation figure come out. We know you've got your tax cuts coming into play and energy rebates from the first of July. I mean, that's welcome relief, but are you worried it's fueling inflation even more?

BILL SHORTEN: No. The cost of living relief we're doing is tapered in a way it doesn't cause inflation but it does help with the energy bills $300 available from next Monday. The tax cuts are necessary. When Labor came to power inflation had a six in front of it. Now it's got four. It is difficult, like we're groaning not for us not only because we want to make sure that people are able to make ends meet, but between cheaper medicines and some of the other measures the fact that low paid workers are going to get some modest increases. We're doing a series of measures. I would just say in terms of the the cost of living issue though. Jane and I could sort out saving a billion dollars. She just said there's going to be a fiscal, we need more fiscal levers. Let's not waste money next week on Senate committee games, when in fact we could just help the NDIS. And that's going to help cost of living. Like sometimes we just have an opportunity to do practical things. So let's do it in the Senate next week on the NDIS.

JANE HUME: Actually your cuts to the NDIS have already been factored into the Budget. I think that there's more important decisions that can be made.

BILL SHORTEN: Wow, when did a billion dollars not become worth a billion dollars Jane. That's a real let them eat cake attitude.

JANE HUME: You put it in the Budget two years ago mate.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: I think we need to get you both in the same room to be talking about this.

BILL SHORTEN: I'd love that.

JAYNE AZZOPARDI: But thank you for talking about it on our show this morning. Bill Shorten and Jane Hume thanks for your time.