Interview with Laura Jayes, AM Agenda

27 March 2024

LAURA JAYES: Welcome back, you're watching AM Agenda. It's all happening in Canberra this morning. The government is trying to rush through legislation when it comes to immigration detainees now, this is a situation that the Opposition has called rushed and a little chaotic. We just had mail from our political editor Andrew Clenell that the Opposition was not inclined to support this this week, or at least today. Let's get some instant confirmation on this or otherwise, the Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume joins us live from Canberra. Jane, thanks so much for your time, you would have heard what Andrew had to say. But is the Opposition going to support this through Parliament?

JANE HUME: Well, Laura, the Senate hearing into this legislation, which was demanded by the Coalition opposition, because the legislation was so rushed, is still going, it's still going this morning. So you can understand why the Coalition would be reluctant to firm up a position until it's heard all the evidence from the department as to how it came about developing this legislation and what the unintended consequences might be. Because let's face it, when you rush legislation, that can be the effect that there are consequences, unforeseen consequences, that can have quite a detrimental effect in public policy. We do not want that to happen here. This legislation was presented to the Coalition yesterday morning at 8am and we were told that it was urgent, but there was a date stamp on that legislation that said that it was printed out four days prior. Now, if the Coalition had had some time to look at this legislation, and to consider the implications of it, when that legislation was confirmed and adopted by the Labor Party, perhaps we wouldn't be in this pickle that the day before the Senate rises for Easter, that we are now being forced to rush through legislation that has some serious implications and consequences.

LAURA JAYES: Okay, so if they had this four days ago, are you suggesting that perhaps the tactic has been to not give the Opposition too much time to look over this and be kind of forced or pressured into passing it?

JANE HUME: Well, there does seem to be I think there's questions to be answered about why the Coalition didn't get this legislation until yesterday morning, when it could have had it last Friday. If this was urgent legislation, as the Labor Government has said, it could have been done so much more effectively, so much more, with much more scrutiny, and less rushing less risk of making mistakes. That's what we are trying to prevent here. Now, I'm sure that legislation will come on for debate today in the Senate chamber, and we'll see where it goes. But quite frankly, to ask us to make a decision before we've even finished the hearings with the department is unreasonable.

LAURA JAYES: Jane, what's been put by the government is that this is urgent. It needs to be passed this week, tomorrow. But do you, do you feel that weight? Does the opposition feel that weight? Or do you think it's not as urgent as the government is making out?

JANE HUME: No, we agree that keeping the community safe should be the government's number one priority. It's something that they have failed to do. So throughout this entire debacle of immigration detainee process, right from the original erroneous advice that Minister Giles gave to the High Court about the original case, the NZYQ, case right through until today. This has been shambolic. It is chaotic. It is panicked and that is not the way to handle an important issue of public policy and debate.

LAURA JAYES: So, should another sitting week then perhaps be scheduled in April to deal with this?

JANE HUME: Well, if that's what it takes to make sure that the legislation is right, that it is going to have the intended effects and not unintended ones. So be it but quite frankly, that is on this Labor Government because they have handled this so badly from go to Woe and the fact that the Coalition only got this legislation to look at yesterday morning at eight o'clock, only got a 20 minute briefing from ministerial advisors and we're told that this had to be done today that we were railroaded into a position that has enormous implications is entirely unreasonable.

LAURA JAYES: So your message to the government right now then, Jane, just to distill it right down is that you're not going to be rushed, you'll look at this legislation. You want to see the Senate Committee, and at the moment, you're telling the government perhaps best to schedule another sitting in April to deal with it?

JANE HUME: Well, no, I'm not suggesting that that is the best solution. I'm suggesting the best solution would have been to do this differently in the first place.

LAURA JAYES: But we are here now?

JANE HUME: If the Coalition can be government, if the Coalition can be comfortable with the outcomes of this legislation, with the scrutiny of this legislation. That is the Senate's job. Let's remember the Senate's job is to scrutinise legislation that has significant implications, well, then we can proceed. We know that the Coalition will always strive to keep the community safe. This is something that the Albanese government has failed to do because of this shambolic process that has now lasted around six months and the failures of Minister Giles quite frankly, Anthony Albanese should we should stop running a protection racket for this terrible, hapless, hopeless Minister, and start concentrating on keeping the Australian people protected rather than Minister Giles.

LAURA JAYES: To be honest, on both sides of this debate, you've got people poking holes in the legislation before it's even been passed, or even seeing the details questions about how these countries would be designated. What if someone from Iran goes to jail, there's a minimum sentence, they go to jail for a year and then what happens after that time serve, then they're happy and welcome to stay?

JANE HUME: These are the sorts of questions that should be asked during a Senate Committee process during appropriate scrutiny of legislation. Now, if the Senators that are on that Committee can satisfy themselves that those questions have been answered this morning, that the government has a solution that is workable, well, then we will proceed. But if they can't, well, this is on Labor to fix the problem that they created. Let's not forget that this is a problem of Labor's creation.

LAURA JAYES: Okay, one final question before we go, because I think it is fantastic that someone has made this intervention, I'm just disappointed that it’s not someone within the Parliament, and that is Matt Comyn is the boss of the CBA. He said that in order to boost growth, there needs to be a big change in how this country is taxed and run. He suggested low income taxes, broaden the base and lift the GST and finally start taxing tech companies like Facebook properly and impose a levy on them. Do you like these ideas Jane?

JANE HUME: Well, some of these ideas, I can understand why they would had significant appeal. But what I scratched my head at was because it wasn't that long ago that we actually had a very quick but very significant public debate about personal income taxes back in January, when the government repealed the Coalition stage three tax cuts that would have directly affected bracket creep, directly tackled bracket creep. When we had that debate, where was Matt Comyn then? You know, he is a little bit too late to the party to talk about just income tax.

LAURA JAYES: And that's what he's talking about, he’s talking about GST, he’s talking about multinationals.

JANE HUME: And wouldn’t that have been an interesting, would not have been an interesting contribution to public debate back then. Right now, we're debating, you know, significant divestiture powers, well, I mean, is that going to come to the party on that debate in three months time? It’s a little bit too little too late.

LAURA JAYES: On the intervention, though, do you think if he had made the intervention earlier, when you were having that debate about stage three tax cuts, that that would have changed the outcome?

JANE HUME: But we need people that are policy leaders, that are thought leaders, to speak up on public policy debates when they are happening, not after the fact. Don't point to the fire, help us put it out. You know, that's what we need.

LAURA JAYES: But to be fair, it’s after the fact, you can still do all these changes. Yeah, but I mean, it’s not a dead end here. You could lift the GST.

JANE HUME: Laura, I’ll tell you that the Coalition, as you know, as we've discussed on this program, is committed to lower simpler, fairer taxes and we are in the process of developing our policy.

LAURA JAYES: Well this is great timing because you're in the process.

JANE HUME: But why didn't he speak up at a time when that debate was going on? Because you know, quite frankly, you know, that was a significant backflip. It was a significant broken promise by the Albanese Government and business leaders went silent.

LAURA JAYES: Okay, I think he's talking about broader scale tax reform, but I take your point Jane, I will speak to you soon.

JANE HUME: Thanks, Laura.