Interview with Laura Jayes, AM Agenda

10 April 2024

LAURA JAYES: Joining me now is the Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Thanks so much for your time Jane. We just spoke to Alex Ryvchin and he essentially said he knows where Penny Wong is coming from, but now's not the right time.

JANE HUME: Well, certainly this does seem to be not just a unilateral move by Penny Wong but also a premature one. There is no way that a two state solution is possible unless there has been an assurance of security and confidence that those two states can live safely. That simply doesn't exist right now. More importantly, it has to be done with the consent of both of those states, one of which is Israel. And Israel, of course, are still in the middle of a war with Hamas, trying to eradicate Hamas, which is a terrorist organisation. A terrorist organisation that still has over 150 Israeli hostages, and is hiding those hostages along with the terrorists amongst civilian infrastructure and indeed using civilians as human shields. Surely, before we start talking about two state solutions, we need to solve the problem that is at hand. Every time Penny Wong goes out and talks about the crisis that we're facing now, in Israel and Gaza. The first thing that she should be calling on is for a release of those hostages. It's been six months since those barbaric October 7 attacks. Those hostages are still there, and Israel is waiting to have them returned. And until that time, really, a two state solution is a pipe dream. This is a significant shift away from what has been bipartisan public policy, foreign policy for decades. I'm astounded that Penny Wong has gone out so hard at this point in time so prematurely, and so unilaterally.

LAURA JAYES: Australia and Penny Wong herself has repeatedly called for the release of hostages immediately. I think that was part of what she was trying to say last night with those two things the release of hostages immediately and front running a two state solution. Do you see where she's coming from?

JANE HUME: Is that conditional though? A two state solution has been government policy, bipartisan government policy.

LAURA JAYES: What do you mean?

JANE HUME: Well, this is the thing that two state solution has been bipartisan covenants policy for years. Those normalization of relationships between Israel and its Arabic neighbors has been progressing very well. You're looking at countries like Jordan like Egypt, this has been working well. It was the actions of Hamas that have caused the crisis we are facing now.

LAURA JAYES: Yeah that's right.

JANE HUME: If you, if you come out and say the solution to this is an independent Palestinian state you're simply rewarding the actions of terrorists. Quite frankly, we want to see that the release of those hostages, that an established Palestinian authority that is reliable, and you're sure all these things and-

LAURA JAYES: Who should that be?

JANE HUME: and an assurance of safety for the Palestinian State and respect for the existence of, sorry, an Israeli state. Those should all be preconditions for a two state solution.

LAURA JAYES: I understand that. So a two state solution is still very much kind of a bipartisan issue. Yes, there are splinters and that's what we're talking about today. Where you diverge from the government here. But when you say assurance of the security need to be made, and there needs to be a reliable Palestinian leadership, I mean assurances from who and who is the reliable Palestinian authority?

JANE HUME: That's a very good question, isn't it because right now, Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza and Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Israel wants to see the demise of Hamas. And so well, they should because unless that is the case, unless there is a governing authority that respects Israel's right to exist, well, then there can be no two state solution.

LAURA JAYES: Well, how does, to play devil's advocate here I mean, we've heard from Netanyahu just yesterday that he is planning an invasion of Rafah alongside that he says Israel has a plan to protect the 1.4 million Palestinian civilians living there. When you are under the threat of invasion, and yes, Hamas is still operating, trying to inflict damage on Israel, when and how does a new Palestinian leadership form and what outside assistance is required? Like from Australia or America?

JANE HUME: That is a very good question and probably one that we cannot answer yet until Hamas has been defeated. And that is Israel's objective.

LAURA JAYES: What does defeat look like though?

JANE HUME: Of course we want to see an end to the bloodshed. Of course we want to see an end to bloodshed. We want to see the end to the unnecessary loss of life, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that this entire situation was caused by Hamas. It was caused by those October 7 attacks. Those barbaric attacks, and the fact that there are still hostages being held in Gaza that have been hidden behind human shields, civilian shields inside civilian infrastructure. We have to keep reminding ourselves of that, that Israel is trying to get to a stage where it has the right to exist securely and peacefully within its own borders. And until that happens, a two state solution and to start calling for it two state solution is simply rewarding bad behavior.

LAURA JAYES: Well she wasn't putting a timeframe on it to be fair?

JANE HUME: Well, she didn't. Neither did she call for the release of terrorists as, sorry, the release of hostages as the number one priority. She's talking about a two state solution as the solution to the conflict in the Middle East. That cannot simply be done at the click of the fingers. And not only that, it would be very bad to do so. Israel does have a right to exist. It is a liberal democracy that has been an ally of Australia. For many, many years. And quite frankly, if I were part of the Jewish Australian population, I would be profoundly disappointed and indeed, astounded that this new stance of the Labor Government has come to the fore now because before the election, they said that there was no daylight between the Coalition's policy on Israel and the Labor Government's policy on Israel. And now that seems to have shifted, that is a significant move away from a bipartisan approach to foreign policy.

LAURA JAYES: As this war rages on, there has been a shift I think, in the psyche of Australian people. Keeping in mind that I speak to members of the Jewish community all the time and they say 'yes, there has been a rise and it has been sustained of anti-semitic behavior'. Is it important at this point Chang to make the distinction between anti-semitism and criticism of Israel?

JANE HUME: I think that has been important from day one, but neither should we ever tolerate anti-semitic behavior within Australia, and at the same time neither should we constantly qualify, condemnation of anti-semitic behavior by adding, or Islamophobia, on the end of it. There are two very separate issues right now. We've certainly seen that play out in my home state of Victoria, where Jewish Australians are living in their own communities in fear that is entirely unacceptable and they are being specifically targeted. That's not Islamophobia. That's directly anti-semitism. There is no two ways about it, and is entirely unacceptable. Jewish Australians have the right to live peacefully here, just as Jews in Israel have a right to live safely in their own country.

LAURA JAYES: Jane Hume, great to talk to you as always. Thank you.

JANE HUME: You too Laura.