Interview with Laura Jayes, AM Agenda

26 June 2024

LAURA JAYES: Let's go live to the Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. It's a good time to bring you in Jane. So what do you think about all of that, AEMO’s stance on the plan that your party has released?

JANE HUME: Well, this is a really big report Laura and we will take our time and go through it properly. It only came out this morning, but just on first blush, I think we could say a couple of things. One is that it really doesn't delve into the costs of nuclear or the viability of nuclear because AEMO is specifically precluded from assessing opposition policy. The other is that the figures that he is referring to don't include the costs of distribution which you know, under Labor's plan is massively expanded. The cost of poles and wires under a renewables only energy mix dramatically affects the cost to the end user and to the taxpayer as well and that's not something that AEMO has assessed here. What it is telling us, however, is the urgency with which action is required because Australians deserve and expect cheaper, cleaner and efficient, reliable energy and at the moment, they're not getting that. Some families are paying around $1,000 more each year on their energy bills right now. That's despite the fact that they were promised an additional $275 off their energy bills, a reduction in energy bills by this Government prior to the election that certainly hasn't been delivered. Moreover, we're now seeing, in my home state of Victoria, chronic shortages of gas, which we know needs to be the firming source in the system and we need more gas immediately right now in order to make sure that we can keep the lights on.

LAURA JAYES: For many reasons we are in this position. One of them is that there's been a lack of clarity and bipartisanship on energy policy for the best part of 20 years. Voters should be frustrated with that if they're not already. But what things still the major parties are failing to do here and this nuclear debate has shone a light on is it okay we move to 80 to 90% renewables, but if we don't have that 10% firming capacity locked down, the whole system essentially falls apart. Both you and the Labor Party cannot say what that firming capacity will be in 2050?

JANE HUME: We've made it very clear that in the medium term, we need to inject more gas into the system with 90% of our coal fired power generation leaving the system over the next decade. This is now becoming urgent. Labor has a future gas strategy that seems to have been tabled and then immediately put aside. That should be of great concern. What we've seen is that we want to see the coal that is exiting the system be replaced by clean, reliable baseload nuclear power in the longer term, but in the medium term, it will certainly be important for gas to play and that's something that way we'll make announcements on soon.

LAURA JAYES: Okay. Let me ask you about two other things, one is Fatima Payman. The Labor Party rules are looking more like guidelines than rules at the moment, she will not be expelled. Is that the right course of action though?

JANE HUME: Well, this is entirely an issue for the Labor Party to make a decision on, you can already feel the disquiet in their ranks about the decision that seems to have to been made to let Fatima Payman off the hook. One rule for one, one rule for others. There are certainly many members of the Labor caucus that might have had a dissenting opinion on many issues in the past, but they have abided by the party line as much as they had to do so through gritted teeth. I think for instance, Penny Wong on the issue of same sex marriage. She said that she had tried to convince her own party room internally, but voted with her party externally. Now, it seems like we're happy to let Senator Payman off the hook. This is entirely up to the Labor Party, but quite frankly, Senator Payman’s actions here have been a direct defiance of the Prime Minister and this isn't the first time she has done that. This is the second time. You'll recall only a month ago, she did a press conference where she used a phrase and I'm not going to repeat it here. But even the Prime Minister said that that was a phrase that incited violence and was anti semitic. So, that was the first time. Now, she's going through the second strike. She not just crossed the floor, she actually sat in the Greens advisor box, when she was abstaining from previous votes and then walked with The Greens and with David Pocock to sit on the opposite side of the chamber to her colleagues. Now I've imagined there would have been plenty of people in the Labor Party that probably felt the same way as Senator Payman but wouldn't be afforded that luxury. So we'll see where the Labor Party land on this but quite frankly, it is a demonstration of the respect with which the Prime Minister has been held by Senator Payman and also a reflection of his weak leadership and his vacillation and his prevarication over the issue of Israel.

LAURA JAYES: All right, let me finally ask you about Julian Assange. It looks like he will soon be on his way home to Australia. This is a formality but a very important final hurdle for him in the Mariana Islands. There have been questions about what these might be costing the taxpayer, has seen Stella Assange raising money online to pay for the private jet, which is around $500,000 as I understand it. Kevin Rudd is in court as well. Would you expect there to be a reasonable cost to the taxpayer here?

JANE HUME: I think that everybody will be very pleased to see an end to this tawdry saga which has now gone on for more than a decade. What I would say is that there has been, across both parties of Government, a commitment to upholding respect for the laws of both the UK and the US up to this point. I think we're very glad to see this come to an end. Yes, there certainly will be a cost to the taxpayer and we'll be interested to see what that is. I'm sure that this will be something that will attract a fair bit of attention at the next round of Senate Estimates. It's also very unusual, I think, to see Kevin Rudd there. I don't imagine that he stands alongside other Australians who are pleading guilty in a court case in a different jurisdiction, in a US jurisdiction, that was quite an interesting sight, but again, questions I think, for another day.

LAURA JAYES: Do you think it's unusual that he is there?

JANE HUME: Well, I think that it's been, you know, obviously negotiated with both UK and US Governments through diplomatic means and he is our chief diplomat in the US. That said, this is an interesting precedent, I think to set. What I would say though, is that Julian Assange, when he does touchdown, if he's hailed as a hero, I think that that is a terrible mistake. Let's not forget that he is pleading guilty here. He's pleading guilty to releasing information about people that have been put into danger, because of the reckless and thoughtless way that he has released this information, whether it be counter espionage or (Interrupted).

LAURA JAYES (INTERRUPTS): How should we see him? How do you view him, Jane? You're saying he’s not a hero, he’s not a journalist. But he did, you know, when you come to free information, but as a journalist, you know, this is a tough question as well, because you want there to be free information. The public should be informed as far as they go. So you say essentially that, no, perhaps he went too far, but as an Australian citizen, this shouldn't have gone on for 14 years?

JANE HUME: I can only give you my opinion on this Laura, which is Julian Assange is no hero. He recklessly released information that put counterintelligence and intelligence communities at risk, and more importantly and this should be in the eyes of many people. Those brave Afghani and Iraqi members of their public, that were working towards bringing down their totalitarian regimes, that were working with coalition forces, were also put at risk. He left them out there and I don't know how many lives have been lost. I don't know whether we will ever know that. But we certainly know that the last 14 years for those people, if they are still with us, has been a very difficult and frightening experience and that's because of a choice that Julian Assange made. And a law that he is now admitting that he has broken.

LAURA JAYES: Jane Hume, thanks so much for your time today.

JANE HUME: Thanks Laura.