Interview with Natalie Barr and Clare O'Neil, Sunrise

3 July 2024

NATALIE BARR: Welcome back to Sunrise. An investigation is currently underway into the motives of a 14 year old boy who allegedly stabbed a student in the neck with a kitchen knife at the University of Sydney. It's understood the teen is known to police and was charged just last year with planning a terror attack similar to the Christchurch massacre. However, charges were dismissed due to mental health. For more I'm joined by Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neill and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Good morning to both of you. Clare, this is another example of a teen who actually went through a deradicalisation program yet commits another offense, allegedly. Are these programs actually working?

CLARE O'NEIL: Thanks, Nat, and good morning to you and to Jane. Could I just say first on behalf of the Commonwealth Government, my thanks to first responders and others who are involved in supporting the family of the victim of this incident. This is an awful thing to happen again in Sydney, and really for those people in those city, I understand the deep concern that they have. Now, I just note New South Wales Police have not yet declared this a terrorist incident, so I can't speak to the specifics of this particular example. However, I can tell you that we are seeing some really concerning trends in the presentation of terrorism in our country. And in fact, these are global trends. We're seeing a proliferation of ideologies that are driving people to violence, so many different beliefs that drive people to violence. We're seeing this really concerning presentation of young people in the cohort, which I know for the community, is particularly disturbing. And I don't think we should also gloss over the fact that technology and social media are pivotal to these recent events. Now what we're seeing is social media is playing an increasing role in the radicalisation of young people, and indeed in the commissioning of the crimes that go on to be undertaken by young people in some instances. So we've got some really concerning things going on here that we need to get a handle on.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah you're right. But the one in Perth where police were forced to shoot a teen in a Bunnings car park, which we understand was terror related, this hasn't been declared it, but it sounds like it, and this kid underwent a deradicalisation program. So both of those do we need to relook from a federal level, what these deradicalisation programs are?

CLARE O'NEIL: So really important question, Nat, and I just point out to your viewers, so these programs are funded, largely funded by the Commonwealth, but run by the states, and that's because each state have their different permutations of what this problem looks like. I think it's really important that we do stay focused on how effective those programs are. And I just say to your viewers, we have a strong history in our country of being able to prevent terrorist attacks, and for every incident of violence we see, there are many, many that are prevented by our police and our intelligence agencies. So I'm confident these programs do have some effect, but we need to stay really focused on making sure that we're attacking the problem with everything we've got.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah, well, Jane didn't sound like it had much effect yesterday, 22 year olds stabbed from behind in the neck. This kid had apparently been in this deradicalisation program so funded by the federal government and run by the state. So this sounds like a bit of backpassing. Whose fault is this Jane?

JANE HUME: Well, I don't think pointing blame is the appropriate response right now. First and foremost, we should let the police undertake their investigation in full and find out exactly what's occurred here. Can I share Clare sentiments, my heart goes out, particularly to the family of that 22 year old student. Nat, you and I both have 22 year old student sons. This could happen to anybody. It's a tragic event for that family, and we hope for the best for that young man. In the meantime, though, I do think we need to have a closer look at the effect of social media on radicalised children and radicalised young people. And as you know, the coalition has introduced a policy to allow social media only for those over 16. I think that this might be another aspect to that policy as well.

NATALIE BARR: Yep, yep, you're both right on that one. Moving on. Peter Dutton has warned liberal colleagues that we might be headed for an early election, prompted by the Prime Minister's decision to not attend a historic NATO Summit in Washington next week. The Opposition Leader believes the reason why could be because of a September poll. Jane, how likely is it that an early election will be called, do you think?

JANE HUME: Well, that's entirely up to the government, but certainly the signs point towards an early election.

NATALIE BARR: You’re hearing that though, are you?

JANE HUME: We're hearing that around the building as well. Look, you know, and quite frankly, I'm not surprised, because, you know, the economy is looking like it's going downhill. The Government is in disarray. They've got people crossing the floor. They seem distracted from what it is that they need to do. There's clearly a reshuffle on the cards, but it's going to be a reshuffle of the deck chairs on the Titanic. If your real wages are going backwards, your living standards are going backwards, your economy has stalled to a halt.

NATALIE BARR: So Jane, that's what the building is telling you. Is it?

JANE HUME: That's what we're hearing around the building this week, certainly.

NATALIE BARR: Before September?

JANE HUME: We're hearing it as early as, potentially as September.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, Clare, is that what the building's telling you?

CLARE O'NEIL: Well, it's not the Government's focus at all, Nat. I can tell you that right now.

NATALIE BARR: But is that what the building’s telling you?

CLARE O’NEIL: And that is and that is helping Australians with the cost of living. We're in the middle of this really important week for Australians, where we've seen on the first of July, those tax cuts starting to flow to Australian households for $300 in energy bill relief starting to flow to households just this week, 2.6 million low income Australians got a pay rise. Their third since our government came to office. Our one and only focus right now is what matters to your viewers watching at home, and that is helping them manage the bills that are piling up. And that's what we're focused on at the moment. It's not politics, it's people's lives.

JANE HUME: After two years, nobody is better off under Labor.

NATALIE BARR: Clare, just before we go, also making headlines today Clare. You and Andrew Giles might be the subject of a reshuffle in the midwinter break. Are you hearing that?

CLARE O'NEIL: Look Nat I pay no attention. This Parliament House is very much like a schoolyard in a variety of ways, and one of the ways is that there are rumors flying around. Every day about everyone I pay no attention to it.

NATALIE BARR: Would you be happy to move?

CLARE O’NEIL: I've got a really big and important-

NATALIE BARR: Would you be happy to move?

CLARE O’NEIL: I've got a really big and important job that I do for the country, and that's my focus genuinely each and every day. Okay, we'll leave it there.

NATALIE BARR: Thank you very much, we’ll see you next week.