Interview with Natalie Barr, Sunrise
27 November 2024
NATALIE BARR: The pain of inflation may last well beyond 2026, and it may not get better until the end of the decade, according to new analysis of RBA forecasts. Australia's living standards are unlikely to return to levels we saw before the inflation crisis hit, with household pain set to continue for many years to come. It's likely that families will remain worse off overall, even after inflation returns to the Reserve Bank's target band. For their take, let's bring in Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Good morning to both of you. Amanda, what do you say to Aussies facing another at least six years of pain?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, look, I'll start by saying I understand that Australians are doing it tough and we've been really focused on doing what we can to bring down inflation. Of course, we inherited inflation from the previous government with a six in front of it. It's now got a two in front of it. But in addition to our fight against inflation, we're also looking at how we can best support people to put more money in their pockets. Things like supporting wage increases that helps them get more money in their pocket. Things like tax cuts for every single taxpayer, energy bill relief. So we are taking a responsible measures to support people with more money in their pocket, but at the same time fighting inflation. And I have to say it is on a good trend. But you know, of course this is…
NATALIE BARR: Well I don’t think it is actually when you look at the figures. So real wages, the amount that your actual wages can buy because goods and services go up and wages go up, but they're not going up at the same rate. So real wages are nearly 5% lower than they were this time in 2019. That doesn't sound good for people going, why can't I buy as much as I could?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, of course, the previous government had a deliberate plan to keep wages down. What we've done is put new laws in place, supported minimum wage increases, and what we're actually seeing is that wages are growing again. This is an important, architecture of our design to get wages moving now. The opposition criticised us. They've tried to block our changes that have got wages moving, which means that Australians would be worse off if the Coalition was in government because they would be deliberately pushing wages further down. Of course we want to get them moving again…
JANE HUME: Oh nonsense.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: We want to see them increasing and we want to see those real wage increases as well, which we've been working towards.
NATALIE BARR: We all do. Jane. Okay. Let's say you guys get in. You've been, you know, crowing about this for two and a half years. What would you do to make sure that real wages go up?
JANE HUME: I wouldn't say crowing that. In fact, I think that it's more empathy rather than crowing. It's been a disastrous two and a half years. And let me just say this to your viewers if you're feeling poorer, it's not all in your head. This data shows it. You, in fact, are poorer. Your real disposable income. So not just your real wages, your real disposable income. So that's after inflation, after interest rates and after taxes has gone backwards in the last two years by 8.7%. Not only that, but we're in a household per capita recession, so growth has gone backwards too…
NATALIE BARR: We know that. So what would you do though.
JANE HUME: So that means that your, essentially your living standards have collapsed as well. The most important thing we can do is focus 100% on getting inflation back into band. But as this data shows, that isn't going to be enough. We also have to get the economy moving again. We're only going to be able to do that by getting energy prices back down to a manageable level…
NATALIE BARR: And how are you going to do that?
JANE HUME: And making sure that our industrial relations reforms, making sure that our industrial relations reforms work for employers and employees…
AMANDA RISHWORTH: That will cut wages Jane, that will cut wages.
JANE HUME: And we need to make sure- that's not what I said, Amanda. Don't be so ridiculous. Nobody wants to see wages go backwards. But under you real wages have gone backwards.
AMANDA RISHWORTH (talks over): That's what your industrial wages have gone backwards.
JANE HUME: Real wages have gone backwards. No, that's nonsense.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: It’s true.
JANE HUME: That’s absolute nonsense. Don’t tell lies.
AMANDA RISHWORTH (talks over): It was a deliberate design feature of your previous government.
JANE HUME: The most important thing we can do is cut red tape. It’s not true. Don’t say that Amanda. It is a lie. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
AMANDA RISHWORTH (talks over): Well, I didn't say it. Your colleague said it.
JANE HUME: We need to make sure that we cut red tape, and we need to cut regulation. And we need to make sure that taxes are lower and simpler and fairer. Most importantly, keep your eye on the ball. We are here to serve Australian people. We are not here to serve our own political purposes...
NATALIE BARR: Okay I think we’ve gone as far as we can on that one. Okay, finally, let's look at the new polling. Let's look at people, what people are thinking. It's revealed only 6% of voters strongly agree that the Albanese Government is focused on the right priorities. 25% say they strongly disagree. The same polling found that 40% of voters think Peter Dutton is ready for office, compared to 39% who disagree. So similar. Amanda, it seems voters might be in the mood for a change. What is your response to that? What are you guys I know not everyone listens to the polls and not everyone looks at it. But when you guys sit around in cabinet, what do you think about those figures?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, what I think about every single day is helping people with cost of living and for example, getting more housing into the market. We've seen just this week Jane and the Liberal Party vote against that. I'm always thinking about how we can do better for the Australian people.
JANE HUME: Oh honestly, where have you been for two and a half years?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, you have voted against our housing bills. You've been blocking our cost of living measures. You fought against our energy price relief. I mean, everything we've done, the Liberal Party has fought against it. So people would be worse off if the Liberal Party…
JANE HUME (talks over): Amanda you spent a year concentrating on a voice referendum that nobody wanted. You appointed 36,000 public servants that have made no difference.
AMANDA RISHWORTH (talks over): When it comes to the next election at a cost, what comes to the next election?
NATALIE BARR: Okay lets not talk over each other. That was the year before you, Jane, you did vote against those two policies…
AMANDA RISHWORTH: When it comes to the next election, Jane and Nat, my focus will be on the future. It will be, of course…
JANE HUME: It’s too late, it’s been two and a half years.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: It's every federal election. Well, I see a sense of arrogance, Jane, that you think you've got it in the bag. We'll be working every day up until the election…
JANE HUME (talks over): And we’ve been working everyday for two and a half years. Where have you been? Concentrating on the Voice.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: And we will be putting forward plans to help people. We will continue doing that.
NATALIE BARR: Okay. I think we've I think we're kind of covered it. Well ladies, thank you very much. We'll see you next week.