Interview with Natalie Barr, Sunrise

29 January 2025

NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in Housing Minister Clare O'Neil and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Good morning Clare. What makes this Chinese app DeepSeek so concerning?

CLARE O’NEIL: Oh, Nat, I think it's just something new, that newest tool that's come onto the market and it's obviously not been what the global markets were expecting. You know, AI is a bit scary. I can really feel that when I talk to the citizens I represent about technology. But there's big opportunities here for Australia. You mentioned those national security comments. And, you know, we would just urge Australians to exercise real caution about the personal information that they're giving away. It's fine to talk to the app, but perhaps don't give it personal information that you don't want the rest of the world to know about you.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, so Jane, if I go on the App Store right now, I look up DeepSeek and the second one down I can press get right now. I've got the government telling me, don't do that. Is anyone going to take notice of that? Is that enough?

JANE HUME: No one is taking notice of it already. Nat, it's the highest downloaded app in Australia. It's overtaken ChatGPT. We would urge caution on this one. Take our advice from the security experts and we hope that the Government will make that advice explicit, because we want to make sure that we keep Australians safe. There's plenty of opportunities, as Clare said, in AI, both professionally and personally, but we would urge caution on this one.

NATALIE BARR: Clare it sounds. So this caused the biggest fall in US stock market history. It sounds like the Chinese are. It was unknown that they were, you know, bringing out this app that has caused users a fraction of the energy use and a fraction of the cost as ChatGPT and in the policies, it ensures that they will hand over all your information to the Chinese Government. Do you think your government is warning people enough about this?

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, Nat, the app only came out in the last couple of days and our national security agencies are amongst the best in the world. So what our national security agencies will be doing at the moment is having a look at the settings of the app and understanding more about how it works before it issues some formal guidance to Australians about care that they need to take. Look, new technologies do get invented from time to time and the advice is always the same, you should always exercise caution. The thing I'd be thinking about, really, for Australians at home, is just your personal information. That's the most valuable asset that we have in some respects. And just be careful about what you're sharing. National security advice that's more formal will be forthcoming.

NATALIE BARR: Right okay. So maybe the government won't be. You're not downloading it, are you?

CLARE O’NEIL: I'm not downloading it. I'm a ChatGPT girl at this stage. And I'll wait to see that formal advice from national security agencies.

NATALIE BARR: Okay. Do you, what do government ministers use AI for?

CLARE O’NEIL: I mean, Nat like many Australians, AI is going to be a tool that helps us do all the jobs that we do every day, you know, from the most mundane things like, you know, typing in what food you've got in the fridge and asking it what recipes you can cook your kids for dinner. Like there's, you know, everything we do can be made simpler, easier and faster through AI. There's a lot that's really scary about these technologies, but there's a lot of benefits here as well. And I know whatever you may think about it, the future's coming at us. So I think it's important that we do understand these tools and learn how to use them.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, finally, Virgin Australia is under fire this morning for removing the dividers between business class and economy. Apparently it sparked a few incidents in the air, with flight attendants forced to push back against passengers trying to use the toilets up the front. Clare, Employment Minister Murray Watt has been forced to intervene. What's the government's position on cabin dividers?

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, I think it's so much a position on cabin dividers. It's a position that backs those hard working staff every single day of the week. When you think about people who work for our airlines, we're asking them to be safety experts. They've got to be, you know, serving people their dinner. They've got to be helping people with emergencies in the middle of the air. And now the airlines want them to be bodyguards too. And we just want proper acknowledgement and recognition. These are some of the most hardest working people in Australia, and we've got to make sure that those airlines treat their staff with the, you know, great respect that they deserve.

NATALIE BARR: So Jane, the we've had, had to have a government minister intervene because the poor people who work on the plane have had to basically crash tackle people trying to use the top bathrooms.

JANE HUME: Yeah, look everybody deserves to feel safe and respected at work, and we would certainly support that. This is a decision for Virgin that we want to make sure that they're looking after their customers as well as looking after their employees. Their decision on dividers is their decision. But I'd say, you know, when you got to go, you got to go.

NATALIE BARR: Right? So go, right, so go up the front. Should we open up all the bathrooms to everyone? I mean, when you two are sitting up the front, do you mind…

JANE HUME: Egalitarian bathrooms do you think?

NATALIE BARR: …economy people come up past you?

JANE HUME: Mate, I'm down the back. I'm looking forward to going up the front and looking, using those toilets. I wonder if they're luxurious or not.

NATALIE BARR: Clare, what would you say? Do you think everyone should be a free for all? Everyone should just like, go to which everyone has the green light on it?

CLARE O’NEIL: I do. I really do. I really do. I mean, we're egalitarian Australians. Everyone should be able to use the bathroom that they choose. But the most important thing here is to remember those beautiful staff at Qantas and Virgin and our other airlines in Australia. They deserve so much respect and gratitude, and we want their airlines to look after them.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, there you go, respect in the air people. Thank you. See you next week.