Interview with Natalie Barr, Sunrise

12 March 2025

NATALIE BARR: The Trump Administration has officially ruled out an exemption on Australian steel and aluminum exports, meaning we will receive those 25% tariffs when the policy kicks in tomorrow. For their take, let's bring in Housing Minister Clare O'Neil and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume, good morning to both of you. Clare, what's your reaction to that news? We were hoping for an exemption from Trump, but he's basically said no deal.

CLARE O’NEIL: Nat, we're still in a discussion with the U.S Government about this. So I'm not going to accept this as the situation yet. We've still got a little bit of time here and lots of discussions continuing to happen. If I can just make a couple of points about this, I think the first thing to say is where the tariffs are imposed or not. We have a very strong and very resilient economy here in Australia. We've seen that time and time again where we've had global turmoil and the Australian Government and the Australian people have managed to build and grow our way out of it. So the first thing is a strong economy. We're going to survive and thrive no matter what happens here and the second thing is that I hope your viewers at home see that our government has done absolutely everything possible to try to get us in the best situation. We're in a world where, you know, Canada and Mexico, the two largest trading partners of the U.S are going to have tariffs imposed. They're saying in Canada, perhaps even at 50%. So I think, to put it mildly, we're operating in a new context here.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah, look, you're right. It is a small, it's $1 billion of steel and aluminium, sounds a lot to most of us when we look at the household budget, but it is a small proportion of our total exports. But it's still important, isn't it, in the scheme of things. Clare, are you saying that even though we have 24 hours to go, you could still cut a deal with America? We still could get that exemption?

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, I just wouldn't, you know, we've got a never say die approach to these things Nat. It's obviously in Australia's best interests for these tariffs not to be imposed. We are doing everything we can and fighting with every single tool that we have available in order to get ourselves in the best possible position. We're still continuing those negotiations and discussion, and that's going to continue until the very last moment.

NATALIE BARR: So is the Prime Minister on the phone to President Trump?

CLARE O’NEIL: I’ll leave the PM to speak about the ways in which he's going to engage with this subject over that last 24 hours. But I would just say to you and to viewers at home, we've got a remarkably strong economy that every Australian is entitled to be proud of. We're going to fight with everything we have to try to get ourselves into the best possible situation. But no matter what the U.S Government decides Nat, we've got a strong, great economy here and will continue to build on that. Noting that, we're coming from a good position of strength. You know, inflation coming down, interest rates starting to come down. We're seeing the economy grow not just on the national level but on a per capita basis. So we're building from a position of strength and we'll continue that work over the coming 24 hours.

NATALIE BARR: Jane, it sounds like the deal could still be alive?

JANE HUME: I would hope so, because we do have 24 hours and our concern is that not everything has been done to remedy this situation. Has the Prime Minister been to the States? No. Has the Trade Minister been over there? He said he was going to go over there this week and he's failed to do so. We have 24 hours. I'm urging the Prime Minister to pick up the phone. Our economy is not resilient. We are entirely dependent on a strong U.S economy, and our concern is that our aluminium and steel manufacturing sectors here will suffer under this, if these tariffs go ahead. So for the sake of Team Australia, we would urge the Prime Minister to pick up the phone today.

NATALIE BARR (INTERRUPTS): Do you know he hasn’t? Maybe he did?

JANE HUME: Speak to the President. If he has, surely he would tell Australia. Surely he would tell us.

NATALIE BARR (INTERRUPTS): Maybe it's so.

JANE HUME: This is the last chance and I'm not saying this with my Coalition hat on. I'm not, you know, talking about things that have gone wrong. But for the sake of your children, my children, the prosperity of the nation in the future, this is the time to pick up the phone and do something. The Prime Minister has failed to do that.

NATALIE BARR: Well, for the sake of everyone's children, should Turnbull have gone on national TV and spouted off against Trump?

JANE HUME: Do you know I'm not going to talk about what Kevin Rudd has said in the past, what Malcolm Turnbull has said, what Roger Cook has said, what Anthony Albanese himself has said. But today is the opportunity. Pick up the phone, Prime Minister, do it for the next generation, if not for this one.

NATALIE BARR: Okay. Um, Clare, we're talking about the U.S Stock Exchange. We're talking about the share market slumping, possibly America going into recession here. We're looking at the numbers now. How concerned are you if that happens about Australia being in the wake and being damaged here?

CLARE O’NEIL: Look Nat, obviously Australia's economy is affected by what happens in the U.S, but I don't take quite as dim a view of the strength and resilience and independence of our economy as Jane does there. We have a remarkable economy here in Australia and we've seen again and again that countries around the world can go through real economic strife and Australia can thrive and survive. I mean, look at what happened in the GFC under the leadership of Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan. We were the only advanced economy to avoid recession all over the world. Australians are entitled to be proud of that and it's built off the back of wonderful Australian run businesses that are creative and ingenious and are able to adapt. So obviously what is going on in the U.S is going to affect us, but I think it's a time for confidence and national pride and believing in Australians and trying to, you know, do everything we can to get us into the best position, which is exactly what our government has done.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah and you don't want to talk down the economy. We know it's based on sentiment. But Jane, if people log into their superannuation balances this morning and if you're 20 something, you won't care. But if you are older, you will and, um, people have sometimes a quarter of their balances in international shares. This could, this will be affecting them?

JANE HUME: Well, the old adage is that when the U.S sneezes Australia catches a cold. So this is really important. Our economy isn't strong. Unfortunately our GDP. Our economic growth is stagnating and has done over the last three years. Our standard of living has gone backwards over the last three years because inflation has stayed too high for too long. Every Australian is feeling poorer now than they were three years ago. We are not in the best position that we could be, and when the U.S is going backwards, we will go backwards too. So, I love Clare's optimism, but let's face it, we need more than a wing and a prayer. We actually need an economic plan to take us forward and this government has failed to deliver that.

NATALIE BARR: Speaking of plans, Clare, can we just get your view on a possible deal that apparently the U.S has done with Ukraine? A 30 day ceasefire that we hear has been made at a meeting in Saudi Arabia. The ball is now in Russia's court. Donald Trump may be on the way to bringing peace here?

CLARE O’NEIL: Nat, this is very much a breaking story, so I don't have the details of what's been agreed to in the negotiation, but I can say that I think everyone around the world would be pleased to see peace in Ukraine. This is a war that, you know, never should have started to begin with. Obviously, kicked off by Russia's vile and illegal invasion of a democratic country and it's had repercussions all over the world, including serious repercussions for our energy markets here in Australia and that's before we even get to the violence and the enormous impact this has had on Ukrainians and Ukrainians here in Australia. So, if we're going to see steps toward peace, that's obviously a really, good thing.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah. Jane, we all watched the Oval Office discussion, shall we say, being generous, with Zelenskyy. But, Trump says I've done deals all my life. Could this be another one?

JANE HUME: Well, a ceasefire is a good thing for the people of Ukraine, but we want to make sure that their interests are respected. I'm very pleased to see that both military aid and intelligence sharing has been restored. We'll wait to see the details. But this is a glimmer of hope for the people of Ukraine.

NATALIE BARR: Okay. We thank you both, we'll see you next week.