Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

25 March 2025

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I spoke to the shadow finance minister, Jane Hume earlier today. Jane Hume welcome.

JANE HUME: Good to be with you.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You've talked a lot about how much you think Labor is taxing, but how would you tax less?

JANE HUME: Well, in fact, Labor has taxed Australians more than they've ever been taxed before. The average taxpayers paid around an additional $3,500 this year in tax alone. That's an extraordinary amount of money to pay. And for what? I mean, better services. That's a very that's questionable. So we wanted to we want to reinstate those fiscal guardrails around the budget that have served Australians so well for so long. A tax to GDP ratio, which essentially contains the envelope in which you spend. That's really important. You know, rule, budget, rule to maintain. We want to make sure that in the long term, expenditure doesn't grow faster than the economy. Again, that's the only way you'll ever bring the budget back into structural balance. If you don't do that. Well, you're simply raising the white flag.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But that is a long term sort of promise, if you like, rather than specific tax cuts or tax reform, isn't it?

JANE HUME: Well, we've actually already announced a series of tax reforms. The first is we won't be supporting Labor's tax on unrealised capital gains. That's not only unfair, but it's also entirely unworkable.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You mean the changes to the superannuation?

JANE HUME: Superannuation yeah. We've said that we will be extending the instant asset write off threshold. So we'll increase that to $30,000, and we'll make the instant asset write off a permanent feature of the tax system. That's a really important productivity measure, because it allows small businesses in particular to invest in their productive capacity. We've also said that we'll allow for an FBT free deductible meals tax deduction on meals for small businesses. That helps not just small businesses, but it also most importantly, helps the hospitality sector because that has been one of the hardest hit sectors in Labor's cost of living crisis. So it's a very modest proposal, but these are things that we've already announced. Now there's more to come. Obviously we'd like to do further tax reform. And I know that there are, you know, voices around this building that want to talk big games on tax reform. The problem is, if you're an independent, you don't actually ever have to make hard decisions about what comes on the other side, how you have to pay for it.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Unless of course there's a minority government, and you can flex your considerable muscle in that space. Well, there's, presumably might happen if you got into a position.

JANE HUME: Well, that's not something…

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Clearly Allegra Spender wants to push for real tax reform. not smaller measures.

JANE HUME: I would love to see Allegra Spender or any other Independent also push for expenditure constraint. Because Allegra Spender and all the other Teals voted in favour of changing the stage three tax reforms so that they actually essentially abandoned…

PATRICIA KARVELAS (interrupts): But so did you.

JANE HUME (continues): …Abandoned.

PATRICIA KARVELAS (interrupts): So did you.

JANE HUME (continues): Abandoned bracket creep reform, which was really important.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Am I right that you did too?

JANE HUME: Well, we had to at the time.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Why?

JANE HUME: Because Australians are facing a cost of living crisis that was caused by labor. Now, we have said that we will support Labor to assist Australians that are really struggling, that are really doing it tough. But because of the decisions that they have made, inflation has stayed too high for too long. Interest rates have stayed too high for too long, and that's why we need to make sure that Australians get the the help, that they need. But that doesn't necessarily mean.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Why did you back in all of these spending measures that Labor has announced, if you think we've got a spending problem?

JANE HUME: Well, we backed in their health reforms because there's been a bulk billing crisis.

PATRICIA KARVELAS (interrupts): PBS, energy.

JANE HUME: There is a health crisis again…

PATRICIA KARVELAS (interrupts): PBS, energy.

JANE HUME: …in this Government caused by problems that they have made. We've backed in energy relief because of problems in the energy system that they have made. And it's ordinary Australians that are paying the price in their hip pockets because of Labor's failed policies.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But do you see what I mean? Like you're making the case that there's too much spending and some people will be watching, you know, being sympathetic to that idea, but you've backed in all the extra spending.

JANE HUME: Well, we've also disagreed with around $100 billion worth of proposals of measures that the Government have proposed. Now, some of those, unfortunately, have got through with the help of other people around the building, but we've certainly opposed them. So we haven't backed down the Government on all of their spending measures. Far from it.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The last couple of months.

JANE HUME: What we want to see is fiscal restraint, and we've been saying that for three years, because if you don't show fiscal restraint when inflation is running out of control, and let's face it, you know it's not mission accomplished. We haven't fixed inflation yet. If you don't control your expenditure, that massive urge to spend. That's very Labor. Well then you're essentially making the problem worse. You're allowing inflation to continue higher for longer. And that means interest rates will stay higher for longer and Australians will pay the price.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Peter Dutton's delivering his opposition leaders formal budget reply on Thursday night. Will there be something meaningful in terms of economic reform in that speech.

JANE HUME: It's a very career limiting move to make announcements about the budget in reply in advance of the budget reply. So I will let the Leader make it for himself. But what I will say is that it is not just a statement of values, it's also a statement of vision, a vision that the Coalition has for the Australian economy and for Australians themselves to make sure that we contain inflation and contain those cost of living, that cost of living crisis once and for all, and do so sustainably to make sure that we get the economy back on track, deliver affordable housing, cheaper energy, quality health care and keep our communities safe.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And a gas reservation policy.

JANE HUME: Well, we've said that we will deliver cheaper.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Does that mean reserving and breaking contracts, perhaps? Or, you know, I can imagine industry, particularly in WA won't be overwhelmed with happiness.

JANE HUME: It certainly means that we need to put more gas into the system faster. So that will mean fast tracking approvals. It's the only way to sustainably bring prices of energy down. The economics hasn't changed. It's still about demand and supply. At the moment we have not enough supply. We must put more supply into the system. In the short term, that's gas. In the longer term, as coal fired power stations retire, we'll replace those with zero emissions nuclear energy, and that will bring down prices over time, as it has done in the developed world right across the globe.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I've spoken to colleagues of yours who tell me that women in their electorates are pretty, pretty cranky with this idea that working from home is, you know, it's suggested that it's perhaps not real work and that it's having negative impacts in terms of how voters are responding in with, with the benefit of hindsight, was that framed wrong?

JANE HUME: Well, that's a Labor lie. I mean…

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I said your Liberal colleagues.

JANE HUME: Yes, you may have, but here's the thing, it's a Labor lie. Because the Liberals have never said that work from home is a bad thing. In fact, flexible work will always stay to begin with. Our policy doesn't apply to the private sector. We want the private sector…

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But it sends a signal to the private sector if you’re saying to the public service you want people back at work.

JANE HUME: No Labor are sending a signal. It's not us sending a signal. We want the private sector to make its own decisions, whatever works for them, whatever works for their productive capacity. But we also want to do what works for the privates, for the public sector as well. Now every public sector job is paid for by a taxpayer. So we have to meet their expectations and at the moment…

PATRICIA KARVELAS: If workers are productive at home, why should they come back to work?

JANE HUME: Well, we want to make sure that they're productive at home. Now, most importantly, we're not going to dishonour any contracts or any arrangements that are already in place, but there is an expectation that if you take a job with the public sector, that it's a job that involves working from the office. Now arrangements can always be made, but they have to work for the individual, for the team and for the department, that's the most effective way that we can deliver an efficient public service.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Katy Gallagher says women will leave. There were women in the public service will leave. Is that perhaps helpful? If you want to cut 36,000 in public servants?

JANE HUME: I think that that is a scare campaign that is directly being propagated by Labor.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But if you are forcing women back to work in the public service, I accept that that's you know, the caveat like that is your policy. Why would they necessarily want to stay if that's a great arrangement for their family?

JANE HUME: Patricia I question why this is a gendered policy in the first place, because it applies to everybody.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And overwhelmingly, women have really enjoyed it

JANE HUME: But what we’re seeing is some egregious abuses of this power, and let's not forget that Katie Gallagher has done a review in this she's asked the Public Service Commissioner to do a review into working from home arrangements herself, because 61% of the public service now have some form of working home from home arrangements. That's so far off the mark to what the private sector is doing. So why should we not put the public sector and the private sector on an even playing field. If this is being turned into a scare campaign by Labor, well, shame on them. Because, to be honest, what the taxpayer deserves is an efficient and an effective public service that meets their expectations.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Jane Hume, always great to speak to you.

JANE HUME: Great to be with you PK.