Interview with Peter Stefanovic, AM Agenda

14 June 2023

PETER STEFANOVIC: Joining us live now Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Jane, good to see you. Thanks for your time this morning. I will get you on the economy. But you do have Katy Gallagher, which is basically taking all the oxygen in Canberra for this last sitting fortnight for a while. She denied that she misled parliament in the Senate  yesterday. Do you accept that?

JANE HUME: Well Peter, there's an awful lot of information that's now in the public domain that contradicts the evidence that Katy has already given to the Senate. So what we want to understand is exactly what Katy knew. And when she heard in order to clarify whether she in fact did mislead parliament, it does seem on prima facie that she in fact did mislead parliament. If that's the case, that's a very serious offence. It's a sackable offence, and it's one that Anthony Albanese is going to have to deal with because if he has a minister, that is essentially breaching his own ministerial standards, that's a real, that's a question for him.

PETER STEFANOVIC: So, if that turns out to be true, you would expect that either she's sacked or she resigns?

JANE HUME: Well, that's what the ministerial standards say that's what they're there for. They're the standards that that's the bar that Anthony Albanese has set for his ministers. If Katy Gallagher has, in fact, misled parliament, that will be for her to clarify, and it will be a decision for Anthony Albanese as to what he does, will he stand by his minister or will he act with the integrity and the transparency and the accountability that he claims is a hallmark of his government and abide by his own ministerial standards?

PETER STEFANOVIC: Just want to repeat a question that my colleague Andrew Clennell asked the other day, one of your colleagues, and he just mentioned basically, if Katie Gallagher did know, a few days before, or even slightly before that a few days before this interview aired on the project last year, and members of your old government knew at about the same time, is there an element of ‘so what’ about all of this, what if she did know?

JANE HUME: No, actually, the question here is about what she said to the Senate misleading the Senate is a really big deal. It can't be swept under the carpet, and indeed, it's part of ministerial standards. If you say something to the Senate, it must be true. And that's what we're going to hold Katy Gallagher to account for. If she misled the Senate, then there should be consequences. If she didn't she needs to clarify that.

PETER STEFANOVIC: So is that part of the strategy for Scott Morrison hinting that yesterday to sort of put him in the clear and put pressure on Katy Gallagher to do the same?

JANE HUME: Well, I think Scott Morrison did clarify his position. He said that if there was any sort of misleading of the parliament from his perspective, it wasn't intentional. And he also said that he supported Fiona Brown at every step of the way. We would expect Katy Gallagher to be that honest with the Senate. If she did mislead the Senate, come clean, come clean and say that she did.  

PETER STEFANOVIC: Your colleague, Senator Andrew Bragg, this morning on radio hinted at some concern about the behavior within your own party with the actions that went on in the Senate yesterday. Do you share his view?

JANE HUME: I think one of the things that Andrew was talking about was the release of those text messages. And look, we don't know how that came about. Let's be honest here. It's really important that the law is upheld all the time, that there is respect for the law, that there's respect for the Parliament, that there is respect for the courts. If a journalist receives text messages or audio files, it's up to the journalist as to make a decision as to whether the release of those is in the public interest. But once they're there in the public domain, well, we have a right to ask questions as to whether Katy Gallagher has been consistent in her messages to the Senate, has been consistent in her evidence to the Senate, whether she says one thing, but the evidence shows another that's misleading the Senate it's a big deal. It's an offence and it breaches ministerial staff.

PETER STEFANOVIC: Would you support an investigation into how those texts were leaked? 

JANE HUME: Well, I'm not entirely sure whether that's the purview of the parliament. In fact, you know, I think that journalists have to make decisions when information comes to them. And let's face it, you know, you've had this Pete. Information comes to journalists all the time, it's up to the journalists to make a decision as to whether that information is in the public interest or not, and whether it should be released.

PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay, Brittany Higgins, shone a light on the timeline, and we're getting into very complicated territory now with who knew what and when. But there is a suggestion that maybe Michaelia Cash has known before she said she did. Has Michaelia Cash got any more questions to answer this morning?

JANE HUME: Well, again, our interest is not in who knew what and when it's whether there has been a misleading of the Senate, misleading of the parliament. That's the offence here. If Katie Gallagher has misled the Senate then she needs to come claim, and that's entirely a separate issue to whatever it is, it's out there in the public domain. You know, things that get said outside the building all the time, but what is said in the Senate what is Sit in the parliament that is sacred you have to be able to trust that if there has been a misleading of the Senate that needs to be clarified

PETER STEFANOVIC: Okay Jane Hume, the Shadow Finance Minister. Appreciate your time, we will talk to you again soon.