Interview with Raf Epstein, ABC Radio Melbourne

3 February 2025

RAF EPSTEIN: Jane Hume is the Shadow Finance Minister, so that means she's part of Peter Dutton's Shadow Cabinet and Jane's one of the Liberal Senators for Victoria. Joining us from Canberra Parliament House. Good morning.

JANE HUME: Good morning Raf.

RAF EPSTEIN: Jane Hume, do you have any ideas of your own or are they all Donald Trump's?

JANE HUME: Oh, Raf, I think that's extraordinarily unfair. Peter Dutton has been Opposition Leader now for nearly three years. Within about six weeks of becoming Opposition Leader, he had already started announcing policies, including things like an additional ten Medicare funded mental health sessions, a pension work bonus to allow older Australians to work a little more, a few extra hours without losing their pension, and, of course, a nuclear energy policy that will essentially be a game changer for energy prices and the energy grid and reliability in Australia. So I think that that's not a particularly sensible accusation.

RAF EPSTEIN: Well, let's just look at some of the things that he has spoken about since Donald Trump's election. Peter Dutton is echoing Elon Musk's efficiency drive and Peter Dutton uses the number a lot, 36,000 extra public servants under Labor. When you were in government, just three years ago, you spent $20 billion on 50,000 private contractors to do public service work. So I'm just curious, what do you think's cheaper, public sector staff or private consultants?

JANE HUME: Raf, what you're referring to is during the Covid years, where we used a surge capacity workforce, and you can imagine why you would want to do that during Covid, because that was when there was enormous demand on government services.

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): They’re through to the end of 22, they are through to the end of 22. I'm just curious what you think's cheaper?

JANE HUME: Well, 36,000 new public servants come at a cost of around $6 billion, baked into the Budget every single year, that's an enormous expense. In addition, it's about a 20% increase to the size of the public service. Now, I don't know whether you'll find too many Australians that feel that they are 20% better served by these new public servants. In fact, in some places, services have gone backwards. You're now waiting around 48 days to get (interrupted).

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): That's an argument. But it's not an answer.

JANE HUME: Well, no, it is an answer. Essentially, what you're saying is that we should increase the size of the public service.

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): No, I'm not, I'm just asking for your opinion.

JANE HUME: 6 Billion dollars per year and at the same time, expect our essential services and standards to go backwards. Australians expect and deserve an efficient and effective public sector. That is something we have been saying from day one.

RAF EPSTEIN: So is it cheaper to do that with private contractors or public servants?

JANE HUME: Well, it depends on what private contractors are used for, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about delivering an effective and an efficient public service that delivers on the expectations of Australians. So you're not waiting five times longer to get a low income card. You're not waiting for, on average about an hour, which is a time wait that has more than doubled to get through to the family and parenting line (interrupted).

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): Yeah we talk about those problems all the time.

JANE HUME: Well, and they are real problems and yet the number of public servants have increased and the cost of the public service has increased and yet we are not better off and that is the problem.

RAF EPSTEIN: So I think everybody wants services. Well, I'm assuming everybody wants services to be better. Are you going to tell us before the election which public servants are you going to get rid of?

JANE HUME: Well, Raf, we have said that we will contain the growth of the public service where there is duplication and excess capacity, well then there will be we will make, you know, we'll make changes. But you can see where the problems are occurring. Just in those examples alone, the low income card families and parenting, there's 4000 additional public servants that are delivering those poorer services in the Department of Health, where we've seen bulk billing collapse in this country, the size of the Department of Health, no extra doctors, no extra nurses has increased 47%, the Department of Environment and Energy has doubled in size.

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): So which ones are you going to get rid of?

JANE HUME: Hang on. It's doubled in size, Raf and yet emissions have gone up and approval times have blown out. So you can see where there are problems. Unless the public service (interrupted).

RAF EPSTEIN: I'm not quibbling about where the problems are, I'm just, is it your position that we'll know before or after the election who won't have a job anymore? I just want to know if we'll know before or after the election?

JANE HUME: I think that the people that are listening to your show, Raf can rest assured that the services that they will receive that will be not just better, but will be improved under a Coalition Government because we are focused on government efficiency rather than an increasingly bloated public service that is not delivering on the services and standards that Australians expect and deserve.

RAF EPSTEIN: Jane Hume is with us. She's Shadow Finance Minister, so this does stray very much into her area, should the Coalition win the next election. I'll get to your calls on 1300 222 774. Jane Hume just on anti-Semitism, which is I mean, it's obviously a problem, but is someone who's toxic enough to spray paint the words F the Jews on a wall, do you think they know what the PM said about anti-Semitism?

JANE HUME: I think that the problem here is that the Prime Minister hasn't been strong enough in not just condemning these actions, but responding to them. That's why the Coalition have said that we want to see stronger penalties, including things like mandatory sentencing of six years for all acts of terrorism under Commonwealth law, mandatory sentencing for those that are displaying symbols of hate and outlawed prohibited terrorist symbols. Mandatory sentencing for those people as well. And of course, increased penalties for those that threaten violence towards a place of worship. The idea that we have had firebombs on childcare centres and synagogues, that we've seen graffiti and vandalism on people's homes, on their cars, on their businesses and now we are seeing the potential for a mass terror event, a mass casualty event.

RAF EPSTEIN: Can you come back to my question? I just want to know if you think you've got a difference in language, well Peter Dutton's got a difference in language, you say, between you and Anthony Albanese. But it's a very direct question that I don't think you have answered. Whoever's toxic enough to spray paint, you know, Magen David, the stars of David on someone's house over in Melbourne over the weekend. Are they noticing what the Prime Minister is saying about anti-Semitism?

JANE HUME: I think that they would be more likely to notice tougher penalties when they are caught and prosecuted and sent to jail under a mandatory sentence for this behaviour.

RAF EPSTEIN: You've spoken about your policy. I'm talking about the rhetoric. It's very clear that you and James Paterson and Peter Dutton are upset with the Prime Minister's rhetoric, and that's okay. If that's your stance, that’s your stance. I'm just trying to get you to answer the question. Does it make a difference, does it make a difference to the people doing this stuff the words the PM uses?

JANE HUME: If the Prime Minister were stronger, if his response was stronger, if the laws that he created were stronger. Well, that would be the ultimate deterrent to these idiots, whether they be from the far right or the far left that are doing these destructive, intimidatory and violent behaviours that are set, that they are intentionally trying to intimidate and terrorise the Jewish community in Australia, and that is unacceptable.

RAF EPSTEIN: Just a final question. Elon Musk gives fascist salutes and he backs far right people in Germany and Britain. Do you guys need to call him out a bit more like he's not he's sort of fuelling the fire, isn't he?

JANE HUME: He's not an Australian, Raf. My concern (interrupted).

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): No, but he's an intrinsic part of the American government.

JANE HUME: My concern is anti-Semitism in Australia, which has been allowed to increase and run unchecked.

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): And they're probably looking at his tech platform.

JANE HUME: By a Government that has demonstrated weak leadership on such an important issue that has left the Jewish community in Australia cowering in their homes, cowering inside places of worship while (interrupted).

RAF EPSTEIN (INTERRUPTS): So no need to call out Elon Musk?

JANE HUME: People are walking outside threatening them while they're demonstrating outside synagogues. This is unfair and unreasonable. We will make sure that in Australia that anti-Semitism is kept, is contained and condemned and punished. That's what a Coalition government will do.

RAF EPSTEIN: Jane Hume, I always appreciate you coming on the show and answering the questions and sharing your views. I'm sure we'll do it again because it's an election.

JANE HUME: Thanks, Raf.