Panel with Natalie Barr and Clare O'Neil

29 November 2023

NATALIE BARR: Well, the federal government is rushing to bring in preventative detention laws to re-detain asylum seekers, freed after a landmark high court ruling. All seven justices unanimously decided indefinite detention was unlawful because it gave politicians powers that are reserved for the courts. Labor is now working to address that, giving judges the power to re-detain those considered unacceptable risks to our community. Let's bring in Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neil and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Morning to both of you. Clare, you've said for weeks you've been waiting for the High Court to reveal its full reasons. Now you've got them. How will you organise these new laws to keep Australians safe?

CLARE O’NEIL: Thanks, Nat. The Federal Government did receive the High Court's reasons for decision yesterday and now the work of the Parliament really gets going. Our Government wants to design the toughest possible preventative detention regime to protect the Australian community. To do that, we are going to need the Liberals to work with us. So it's time for Peter Dutton to stop saying no, stop slowing us down and actually come to the Parliament and work together to keep the Australian community safe.

NATALIE BARR: Jane, are you going to support these new laws through Parliament?

JANE HUME: Nat, look, this is difficult because I have great respect for Clare and we go back a long way, but I cannot remember an occasion where there has been a greater public breach of public safety than by two ministers that clearly are not up to the job. Clare released 140 detainees into the community before this High Court reasoning was handed down. They are rapists, murderers. There's a contract killer out there. One of them has already been lost. This is incompetence in the extreme.

NATALIE BARR: Jane, didn't she have to though?

JANE HUME: At every turn, at every turn Clare has blamed somebody else. She has blamed the High Court. She has blamed the opposition. She has blamed her department. But this is on you, Clare. This is your incompetence. Andrew Giles’ incompetence. You have put the Australian public at risk and at every step of the way you said that there is nothing you can do and then the next day you turn around and do exactly what it is that the Coalition has been calling out for. Today is no exception. We've been calling out for preventative detention laws for weeks now, and you could have done this months ago, but you've had your eye off the ball. Quite frankly, you should be embarrassed that you have put the public at such risk that you have blamed anybody else other than yourself. You should either resign or at least apologise.

CLARE O’NEIL: If I can just respond to the character assessment that I'm getting here, Nat. Jane, you're right. You and I do go back a long time and that's why I know I can say to you directly that you should not lie to people in the way that you are right now. Let's just have an honest conversation about this and you can honestly acknowledge that the High Court of Australia ordered the Australian Government to release these people into detention, that if it were up to me, all of these people would be back into detention. That's when it was up to me.

JANE HUME: The High Court ordered the release of one person, you released 140.

CLARE O’NEIL: You've had your say, you've had your say.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, Clare, let me cut in, when the High Court made the decision, all these people were in detention. Clare, could you have kept the others in detention when the High Court said that the Rohingya man had to be released? Could you have kept the others in while you waited for this?

CLARE O’NEIL: Very, very, very simple answer to your question, Nat and I think, Nat, you know the answer. I think Jane knows the answer and the answer to that question is absolutely not.

JANE HUME: You could have waited for the High Court reasoning and kept them in detention and you didn’t.

CLARE O’NEIL: Jane, you know that not to be true. Now, you and I are friends. We have a long association and we've done a lot of these interviews together. This is the first time I've ever heard you outright lie on camera and you shouldn’t do it.

JANE HUME: This is the first time you've demonstrated such incompetence Clare

CLARE O’NEIL: We owe the Australian people better than that. Jane, I'm really disappointed in this.

JANE HUME: You owe the Australian people an apology. This is the appalling.

NATALIE BARR: It's really difficult sitting in the middle because I'm representing the Australian people and you're saying one thing and you're saying the other thing and we don't know what's happening.

CLARE O’NEIL: Yeah, well, one of us is telling the truth and one of us is not, Nat.

JANE HUME: That's not true. No, that's not true Claire, this is on you, you botched this.

CLARE O’NEIL: A decision to our government from the High Court, gives an order to the government. The government must follow that order. Any grade six student can tell you that. Now, Jane may think it's optional for politicians like herself to follow the law. I know that not to be the case. The High Court of Australia ordered this. We must follow their ruling and the work of the Parliament is to stop playing politics, stop playing politics and come into the Parliament. Work with us to help the Australian community.

JANE HUME: You took your eye off the ball, you owe Australians an apology.

NATALIE BARR: Clare, one more question. Do you know where this detainee is that got away? Any idea where he is?

CLARE O’NEIL: That is in the hands of police now. That is in the hands of police now. And can I say-

JANE HUME: That's not good enough.

CLARE O’NEIL: The Australian Federal Police and Australian Border Force are amazing people.

NATALIE BARR: So that’s a no?

CLARE O’NEIL: They've done an exceptional job and I stand behind them completely. I've got full confidence in the police.

JANE HUME: You’ve put Australians at risk Clare That's on you.

NATALIE BARR: So he's out there somewhere?

CLARE O’NEIL: I've got full confidence in the police and I just note for your listeners, Nat, that the Australian Parliament passed a law that puts really strict penalties on people who put in place this kind of conduct. It's been handed to the police and I've got great faith in their efforts.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, well, let us know when you catch him. Okay. Well, you wonder why Australians don't know, because it's really hard to work out what on earth is happening. Thank you very much for trying to put your side.