Interview with Jacqui Felgate, 3AW

12 February 2025

JACQUI FELGATE: In section every Wednesday in the lead up to the federal election, I will be joined by the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, Richard Marles, and the Shadow Finance Minister, Jane Hume to speak about the topics that matter to you ahead of the upcoming election. And we do have them both joining us from the Canberra bureau. So, Deputy Prime Minister, I'll start with you.

RICHARD MARLES: Good afternoon Jacqui. Good afternoon Jane.

JANE HUME: Good afternoon.

RICHARD MARLES: Good to see you. We're getting the band back together.

JANE HUME: I know, it feels like old times. Hello, Jacqui.

JACQUI FELGATE: Hello, Jane, hello. Now, I obviously want to begin with the big story and the big issue of the day. And, um, I guess I said at the start of the programme I don't really know how to describe the type of horror you feel when you see a video like that which emerged out of Sydney today. So, Mr. Marles, I guess your reaction when you first saw it and we've had a lot of calls today saying in terms of anti-Semitism, could the Government have done more sooner?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, like you, Jacqui, it is hard to put words to this. I mean, it is absolutely appalling what these people are saying on film. People who are in the health system, who should be dedicated to restoring people's health, nursing people back to health are making comments such as this are just absolutely appalling. We and so I guess the answer to that question is I felt completely disgusted is the honest truth. And it is shameful. And I'm glad that we have now got to a point where they have been stood down. But more than that, there is a criminal investigation into what they're saying. I mean, we are seeing anti-Semitism at a level in Australia that I've not seen in my lifetime. Can I say it feels fundamentally un-australian. It's rooted in bigotry and prejudice, and we need to be doing everything we can, all of us as a community, to be, you know, standing against that bigotry and prejudice, standing against that anti-Semitism, but also standing with the Jewish community. I mean, the Jewish community have made an enormous contribution to our nation. They are a celebrated part of our nation. And that's really how we should be relating to the Jewish community. anti-Semitism has no place, and it needs to be stamped out.

JACQUI FELGATE: But as a government, what are you doing to stamp it out?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I mean, we've taken a lot of steps, actually, in terms of criminalising a much broader range of hate crimes than have ever been criminalised before and that includes criminalising hate symbols such as the swastika, criminalising the Nazi salute. And just in the last week, criminalising a much broader range of hate speech, which is all about, um, protecting communities in this country, including, obviously, the Jewish community at operational level, we've established Operation Adelaide, which is an operation of the Australian Federal Police which was stood up last year, which is specifically dedicated to looking at anti-Semitic hate crimes. And they are working with similar taskforces, which have been set up by state polices around Australia. And there's close coordination in respect of that. We've also provided a significant amount of money to the Jewish community in terms of providing security to community facilities, and at one level, it feels like a tragedy, to be honest, that one has to provide that money. But at the end of the day that is what's needed to enable the Jewish community to feel safe. The Jewish community have a right to feel safe in this country, as everyone in Australia does. And as I say, it is the role of all of us in government, but the role of all of us within Australia to be doing everything we can to ensure people do feel safe.

JACQUI FELGATE: But what can we do right now? Is this enough? Do you believe? Because if I replayed the many, many calls that we've taken just on this programme alone today, not even thinking about the ones over previous weeks, but many Jewish people who call in would say that this is all too little, too late. Are you confident that you can quell the anti-Semitic tide in this country?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I think there's a big challenge. So I'm not sanguine about this. And I'm not saying for a moment that everything that's been done means the job is done, because it isn't. There's a whole lot more work which needs to be done. And the job isn't done until the Jewish community feels safe. And I totally accept that people within the Jewish community don't, you know, don't feel safe at this moment. And you look at what we've just witnessed today, and you can definitely understand that. I mean, this has to be an ongoing effort. Yes by government, as I say, I think across the entire community, we all need to be calling this out and making clear that this is just fundamentally not Australian. I spoke to the Sydney Institute a couple of weeks ago on exactly this topic, making it clear that, um, anti-Semitism has its roots in bigotry and prejudice, which must be seen as being as fundamentally anti-australian as anything given the multicultural community that we are. And everyone has a right to feel safe in our community right now, it is the Jewish community who are under challenge and who do not feel safe. And that's why we've got to be doing everything in our power to try and stamp this out.

JACQUI FELGATE: And, Minister Hume, can I bring you in now and ask you, has the Government done enough, in your view, to this point?

JANE HUME: I think the concern, Jacqui, is that we've seen the rise of anti-Semitism run largely unchecked for 16 months now. And even though the Jewish community have spoken up and spoken very loudly, the problem seems to be getting worse. It took such a long time. The government had to be dragged kicking and screaming to a place where they would hold a national cabinet on anti-Semitism, and then when they did hold the national cabinet, the only thing that really came out of it was an agreement across the states to collect more data. Now, I think that's a really inadequate response. Then we had to drag the government kicking and screaming to putting mandatory sentences in place for terrorist offences, for brandishing hate symbols, and also much tougher penalties for people that are committing an act of violence or threatening acts of violence towards places of worship. Because we've had people, you know, cowering inside synagogues while protests have gone on outside, that's unacceptable. So we want to see much tougher action towards those that are committing these crimes. Make sure that if they're being committed by people that are visitors to this country, that their visas are immediately cancelled and that they are sent home because Richard's right, the Jewish community have the right to feel safe. This has spilled over much more broadly to the wider community. Now that we're seeing things like, you know, a caravan filled with explosives on the outskirts of Sydney that threatens all of us, and the fact that we've seen this just vile, sickening video today in a place where the most vulnerable go for help when they need it, is just unthinkable. It is unthinkable. We must not allow this to continue. We need to make sure that there are proper deterrents in place so that people not only know that it is against the rules, but that people will, that those rules, those laws will be acted upon, that there will be consequences for this vile behaviour.

RICHARD MARLES: But Jacqui, I would say this, I think it's I think we need to be careful about walking down a path of political division here, because this really has to be something which is above politics and should be a matter of national unity. I mean, Jane referenced the National Cabinet, well before the National Cabinet, we had already outlawed a range of hate crimes in Australia during this term, well before the national cabinet. We'd established Operation Avalon in the way that I described. I mean, in fact, you know, in at the root of this, as I said, is bigotry and prejudice. The former Coalition government proudly went out there and said Australians have a right to be bigoted as we were seeking to outlaw hate speech in the, in legislation. And in fact, at that point, the leader of the opposition was not somebody who was particularly supportive of walking down the path of outlawing hate speech. Now, I don't go there as my initial foray in terms of describing what we need to do. The truth is we need to look at every avenue. And that absolutely looks at the immigration side of things. It looks at what penalties are in place, including mandatory detention. And we have walked down that path, I think right now, rather than trying to find that place of division, actually, what the Jewish community need is all of us to band together in a unified way to say that we will stand against this.

JACQUI FELGATE: I would agree with that. We do need to take a break. We have a lot more that I need to discuss with you, especially on tariffs and our relationship with the US and how do you negotiate with a man like Donald Trump.

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JACQUI FELGATE: We have a lot to get through, I’m with Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. I'd like to start with you, Minister Hume, for this one. Should Kevin Rudd be brought back to Australia?

JANE HUME: Well, that's not a decision for an opposition, unfortunately.

JACQUI FELGATE: What's your view?

JANE HUME: That's a decision for a government. Well, the most important thing that a government can do is ensure that those that have good relationships, where you can get things done in those very important positions. So that's up to the governments, you know, it was the Prime Minister's captain's pick to put Kevin Rudd there in the first place. So I think it can really only be his call. The most important thing that we can do is ensure that we have a government that can continue to work closely with the administration of the day, whoever that administration is, and look, for the most part, the relationship between Australia and the US has been really deep, really important for both sides of that relationship. And that's just that's strategically and militarily as well as economically. And it will continue to be so.

JACQUI FELGATE: But Minister Miles, I do feel like we are in uncharted waters here. How do you get through this tariff impasse here? And I guess even today, the developing threats that Australian exports are no longer wanted in the US.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I think we've got to cut through the noise here and it is a noisy environment and just understand what happened yesterday morning, and that is that the Prime Minister and the president both spoke. They both agreed that there would be active consideration given to an exemption on the tariff decision that the United States has made in relation to the Australian exports into the United States. And what we will now do is take the opportunity that represents and put our case to the US about why our exports into the US should not have tariffs on them. At the end of the day, we've got a two way trading relationship with America, where America is in surplus. That's actually unusual. It does separate us from most countries. And in that sense, keeping that trade tariff free is very much in the interests of the United States. Of course, it's in the interests of Australia. And to the extent that we are exporting into the United States, that's supporting American jobs. Now that in essence, is the case that we will have been making and will continue to make to the US government. But I'd kind of echo what Jane said. I mean, in a way that we all say this, but it is actually what Jane said is so true that the relationship really is very deep. And last week I was in Washington meeting with my counterpart, Secretary Pete Hegseth…

JACQUI FELGATE: What was that like?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, it was actually a really good meeting, but in a sense, to bear out the truth of Jane's words. Literally the first thing that Pete Hegseth said to me was that when he served in the US Army, he was serving next to Australian personnel in Afghanistan, and he wanted to tell me about them and how close they were, how closely they worked with each other, what great personnel they were. I mean, that is literally the beginning of the conversation that I'm having with my defence counterpart, and it really doesn't get better than that. And so when Jane talks about a deep relationship, it really is. And it does transcend, you know, governments in Canberra, governments in Washington. I know we always say that, but having kind of had the experience of actually engaging with the United States across now, two administrations, it really is true. They do hold Australia in really high regard. And that puts us in good stead in terms of negotiating the various equities that we have with the US And that goes to the trade that we've been talking about over the last 48 hours. But it also goes to AUKUS, which I was talking to Secretary Hegseth about.

JACQUI FELGATE: Unchartered waters, though I think this period of time. Can I just ask you locally too and I'll ask you, Jane, first, just on Rex and the announcement by the Prime Minister today, what's the opposition's view on the government coming in and essentially rescuing that airline?

JANE HUME: Yeah look, we're a little bit concerned about this, to tell you the truth, because while we’re absolutely determined that we have safe and affordable and reliable aviation services for our regions, they really are a lifeline for the regions. We're concerned that there's already been $130 million that has gone to Rex of taxpayers money to bail them out and to keep the planes in the sky for regional communities by, you know, essentially anticipating that the government might step in and rescue Rex by buying it, actually puts potential bidders off. You know, why would you be a potential bidder that would come in and make an offer for Rex, if you know that the government at some stage is going to step in because we're obsessive about safety, we'd probably think about, you know, replacing planes that are, you know, that are getting too old and then we'll sell it off and potentially at fire sale prices. I think that this was a really bad commercial decision.

JACQUI FELGATE: Okay. Can I ask you to respond to that, Deputy PM?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, at the end of the day, regional communities matter. I mean, it's as simple as that. And Rex is the most significant regional airline that there is in Australia. And you take Rex out of the equation and those flight routes out of the equation. And there are a whole lot of regional communities which don't have access to health, don't have access to a whole range of transport, which is fundamental to the functioning of those communities. And in terms of the extension of public money to Rex. I mean, this all happened under the former government in a way that was pretty unchecked and is really where all the problems that we now see with Rex come from. I mean, when…

JANE HUME: Oh hang on.

RICHARD MARLES: Well that's true. I mean.

JANE HUME: …policy and regulatory. I mean, you could fix it up in very different ways. You guys wanted to buy Virgin for goodness sakes during Covid. Thank goodness we didn't go there.

RICHARD MARLES: When the coalition were in government, from Brindabella, Jetgo Tiger, Virgin Airlines were going bust or going into administration. We saw the beginnings of the troubles.

JANE HUME: Two have gone under, under you guys though.

RICHARD MARLES: We saw the troubles that have happened in relation to Rex. And at the end of the day, we're not going to let regional communities go here. We, they need support. And so what we've said is that we will still go through the process of looking for a buyer. But at the end of the day, we are not going to let, leave regional communities behind. And regional aviation is fundamentally important to…

JANE HUME: I’m just concerned that this is the TWU that is directing the airline…

JACQUI FELGATE: I've absolutely run out of time. I am sorry to cut you both off, but I look forward to continuing this discussion next week. Thank you both.