Interview with Kenny Heatley, First Edition

13 January 2025

KENNY HEATLEY: As Opposition Leader Peter Dutton laid out the coalition's priorities ahead of this year's election. At a campaign speech in Melbourne yesterday, his would-be finance minister is vowing to slash the public sector and deregulate the economy, echoing Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency in the United States. The Shadow Finance Minister, Jane Hume, joins me live now. Jane, good to see you. Thanks for coming on the programme. Look, first of all, the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong and US Ambassador Kevin Rudd have been invited and will attend Donald Trump's inauguration. What's your reaction to that?

JANE HUME: Kenny, it's fundamentally important that Australia maintains its close ties with the US particularly because of the economic and strategic and security ties that we have through the Aukus agreement. So we're very pleased that there has been an invitation extended. It's an interesting choice of Penny Wong, considering she has criticised president elect Trump in the past, back in 2021. But I think it's pretty hard to go through the ranks of Labor ministers to find one that hasn't criticised the president elect. So we're very pleased that somebody has been invited.

KENNY HEATLEY: Are you a fan of Elon Musk's DOGE department, and do you think that is what is needed here?

JANE HUME: I'm certainly a fan of government efficiency. And we can see right around the world, Kenny, that governments are now beginning to see that unless they can create those efficiencies within the public sector, well, then the private sector is held back or crowded out. And that's what we want to see in Australia, an efficient and effective public sector that works for the people, not having the citizens work for the public sector.

KENNY HEATLEY: You're vowing to slash the public sector workforce, but the whole reason it was expanded, according to the Government, was to reduce the liability on large consultancy firms that are a great cost to the taxpayer. Will your government increase reliance on external consultants?

JANE HUME: The Labor Government have said that a big Australia with big government is the right solution. We don't think that is the right solution for Australia. We believe that containing the size of government is fundamentally important, to make sure that the economy has the best chance to prosper, but it has to be an efficient and effective public service. Simply more public servants is not always the answer. So we'll make sure that we go through and create an efficient public service that delivers on its promise to Australians. Labor have increased the public service by 36,000 people. Now that's around a 20% increase, but you'd be hard pressed to find an Australian that believes that there are 20% being better served by this Government. In fact, in many areas they've seen the standards of service go backwards. So it's about delivering essential services that Australians expect and require. But that doesn't necessarily mean just simply adding more people to the public sector. Moreover, this Government has failed to account for the public sector growth and particularly in wages. The MYEFO numbers have shown a flatlining of public sector wages over the forward estimates. Yet there's been an 11.4% wage increase that's been agreed to by the Finance Minister. Somehow the accounting doesn't add up. This is a big budget black hole of at least $7 billion, probably more. We'll be asking some questions of the finance minister and the Treasury and finance secretaries at Senate Estimates about this failing in government accounting.

KENNY HEATLEY: $21 billion was spent hiring tens of thousands of external contractors and consultants in the final year of the former Liberal National Coalition Government in 2021-22. Will you commit to this in the budget? If you're going to slash the public sector workforce?

JANE HUME: Well, there will always be a place for some consultants that help government, because government can't be experts in every field. It's important to have the skills and the capability there. But that doesn't necessarily mean you need to expand the number of public servants, because to deliver those services, that Australians expect and deserve and aren't getting right now, with all of those extra public servants, there's got to be a better way. It's about building efficiencies, and that's a pattern that we're seeing right around the world now. Do you do it the same way in Australia as they've done in the US or they're doing in New Zealand? No, there is a particular Australian flavour to it. But that said, it is so important that we go through and make sure that the services that we expect are being delivered in the most efficient way possible.

KENNY HEATLEY: Okay. Jane Hume, always a pleasure to chat with you. Thanks for coming on this morning, as always.