Interview with Raf Epstein, ABC Melbourne
19 February 2025
RAF EPSTEIN: We are joined by Jane Hume. She's the Shadow Finance Minister, Liberal Senator for Victoria, and, of course, part of Peter Dutton’s Shadow Cabinet. Good morning.
JANE HUME: Good morning, Raf.
RAF EPSTEIN: Biggest expense for you in the last seven days?
JANE HUME: Yeah, private health insurance was a big one for me. But actually, do you know what, on Sunday mornings, I cook breakfast for my mother and my kids. And this Sunday, it was also my two nephews. So there was eight of us, including my partner. And, uh, that was hugely -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): The shop -
JANE HUME: - expensive. The shop for that was unreal. Particularly eggs have gone up so much.
RAF EPSTEIN: So would you notice, I'm not gonna ask you, ah, ask about your personal finances, but would you notice 100 bucks extra a month?
JANE HUME: Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
RAF EPSTEIN: So what do you think people are going to take away from the rate cut, because we can pitch your record against their record. But before I get to that, what are people going to notice about the rate cut?
JANE HUME: Well, I think that $100 a month will be welcome for those families that have the average mortgage. But unfortunately, it's not going to touch the sides, because they've lost $50,000. They’ve spent more, $50,000 more, in interest repayments in the last three years than they did -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Well it’s not the Government’s fault
JANE HUME (continuing): - and that’s a lot. Well, if you decide that, you know, inflation has nothing to do with the government -
RAP EPSTEIN (interrupting): I’m not saying the inflation has got nothing to do with the Government. But -
JANE HUME (continuing): - that might be your argument, but of course it does. Of course it does.
RAF EPSTEIN: We-, well, so let's think about what people will notice then, ‘cause we are basically in an election campaign, um, and we are going to hear from the PM in this half hour as well. When you left Government, not long ago, it's not quite three years, I don’t think. Um, inflation was more than 6%, ah, was going up. Inflation was rising faster than wages. Do you think people will remember that?
JANE HUME: I think people will remember that when we left Government, interest rates were only .35%. They're now 4.1% come down from point, 4.35%. There have been twelve interest rate rises under this Government, so this is only a reversal of one, and eleven of those interest rate rises took place while the Government took their eye off the ball and were out there campaigning for-
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): You blame them for every interest rate rise?
JANE HUME (continuing): - the Voice. I certainly blame them for keeping their foot on the accelerator by spending more money over the last three years, while the RBA has had to have its foot on the brake. And that's been, the RBA has had to work much harder with its monetary policy -
RAP EPSTEIN (interrupting): How much of a difference has that made, though?
JANE HUME (continuing): - because the Government wasn't doing its bit with the fiscal policy.
RAF EPSTEIN: But how, but how much of a difference has that made? Because, I mean, I, I have gone back and forth with you over things like, um, debt and deficit, and, and, that, that conversation often revolves around, ‘look, there are a whole lot of things we couldn't do, we couldn't do because of things that were beyond our control.’ Is it really? It's a bit nuts, isn't it, to say Anthony Albanese is responsible for every rate rise?
JANE HUME: Well I'm not saying that -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting):So what are you saying?
JANE HUME (continuing): - but our, but Michelle Bullock certainly said that our inflation problem is home grown, and because it’s home grown -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): She’s also said a lot of the public spending isn’t what she’s focused on. But, so -
JANE HUME (interrupting): But if the inflation problem is home grown -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): How much of it is his fault?
JANE HUME (continuing): - well then it can’t just be the Reserve Bank’s responsibility -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Ok, how much of it?
JANE HUME (continuing): - to get it down. It has to be the Government’s responsibility -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): How much of it is their responsibility, the PM’s responsibility?
JANE HUME (continuing): - as well. Well, you cannot have the Reserve Bank pushing one way and the government pushing the other. If you want to get inflation down faster, which means getting interest rates down faster, you have to have them both working together. They haven't been. Michelle Bullock did flag that some time ago -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Well I don’t …
JANE HUME (continuing): - now it's good news that interest rates have come down, and that is an absolute, that is a relief. But, she's also said ‘this is kind of it,’ -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Ok.
JANE HUME (continuing): - you know, ‘cool your jets,’
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Ok.
JANE HUME (continuing) because we're not expecting another rate cut anytime soon. And, uh, and that is of concern, you know, there’s, there's still some very hawkish language that's coming out of the RBA.
RAF EPSTEIN: Sure, you know, she's definitely said, ‘don't expect a lot of rate cuts very, very soon.’ Jane Hume is with us, Shadow Finance Minister. So again, look, I've asked you there, how much of the interest rate stuff is, is, in your mind, is the Government's blame. I want to play you a little snippet of the Treasurer. Jim Chalmers was on with Sarah Ferguson on 7:30 last night, and he's listing what he thinks they have done, they, they, they are not small things. Here he is:
(excerpt starts)
JIM CHALMERS: We've been able to get inflation down, wages up, keep unemployment low, and now we've got interest rates coming down as well. Those are the facts of the matter. Ah, they will be part of the story that we tell Australians when we ask them to make an important choice, ah, later this year.
(except ends)
RAF EPSTEIN: So can I just focus on what he said there?
JANE HUME: Yep
RAF EPSTEIN: inflation down, wages up, low unemployment, interest rates down. I mean, he's right, isn't he? Like that, they are all facts. They've all happened. Do you give, you got to give the Government credit for that?
JANE HUME: Okay, so let's start with inflation. Under a Coalition Government, inflation averaged 2.2%. Under a Labor government, it's averaged 4.1% -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): It’s under different circumstances.
JANE HUME (continuing): - so it's much higher under a Labor Government than it has been under a Coalition Government. And it's come down faster -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Completely different global economy
JANE HUME (continuing): - and it's come - exactly - and it’s come down faster in other countries, much faster. In fact, other countries, like the US, the UK, New Zealand, they've all seen interest rate cuts -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting):But their interest rates are higher.
JANE HUME (continuing): - far earlier than Australia. Far, but they -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Ok. So we can throw stats at each other -
JANE HUME (interrupting): Ok, and,
RAF EPSTEIN (continuing): - Can I just broaden it a bit?
JANE HUME (interrupting): Hang on, but you just, yeah you can, but you just asked me about a whole series of stats.
RAF EPSTEIN: Yeah.
JANE HUME: Real wages under the last three years of Labor have gone backwards, not forwards. They've gone backwards, which is why Australians are feeling poorer. In fact, we've seen the largest collapse in living standards on record, on record.
RAF EPSTEIN: So I don't, I don’t want to go back. I mean, I realise the numbers are important. I could come back and say, ‘listen, last 12 months, actually, wages have been rising faster than inflation,’ but it wasn't, so I did list those things -
JANE HUME (interrupting): You did.
RAF EPSTEIN (continuing): - and it's not like you're not allowed to mention them. But do you give the government any credit, right? Inflation, when you left, had a six in front of it. Now it's got a two in front of it. That's their oft repeated line. But inflation, wages, low, unemployment, a rate cut: Do you give the government any credit for that?
JANE HUME: But it could have happened so much sooner, and it could have happened so much better.
RAF EPSTEIN: So no credit at all.
JANE HUME: But, but this is the thing, of course it's come down. Any responsible Government, even, you know, with a modicum of fiscal responsibility, could have brought inflation down. Should have brought inflation down, much faster, and it didn't. And that's a failure because Australians are now poorer under Labor. They're poorer because their living standards have gone backwards by about 8.7% over the last three years, and that's, they're never going to get that back. Prices have gone up, not just by CPI, about 11% under CPI -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): You’re, but, but you're not going to bring it back either?
JANE HUME (continuing): - but cost of living has gone up by around 20%. Nearly 20%.
RAF EPSTEIN: Sure. So I guess, may, let me end on this. Are you saying that either grocery bills or house prices are going to be substantially lower? Like, let's just say Peter Dutton wins a majority, right, and you've got the next three years from May this year, but my grocery bill is not going to go down, is it?
JANE HUME: Raf, under a Coalition Government, no one was talking about inflation. Nine years of a Coalition Government, and no one was talking about inflation, because we managed the economy in such a way that inflation wasn't -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): Or the world just wasn’t, but what’s going to-
JANE HUME (continuing): - a problem. But under Labor -
RAF EPSTEIN (interrupting): - but over the next three years, is my, is my grocery bill really going to change?
JANE HUME (continuing):- it has been a problem. We want to make sure that we restore a standard of living, which, according to Deloitte, Access Economics, under Labor isn't going to be restored back to that pre-COVID level until 2030. Now that's not good news for Australians that have found themselves poorer under Labor, that have seen their standard of living go backwards. We want to make sure that we're growing the economy, that we're making sure that real wages increase, not just ‘wages increase,’ real wages increase, and we restore that standard of living for Australians, because without that, you know, that's the opportunity and prosperity that Australians expect and deserve.
RAF EPSTEIN: Thank you for coming in. I'm sure we'll be chatting more.
JANE HUME: Good to be with you
RAF EPSTEIN: Jane Hume is the Shadow Finance Minister, she's one of the Liberal Senators for the State of Victoria, the Prime Minister will join us soon as well.